Scuba symbol owned by anyone?

[Bob3]

On the topic of editing posts; if you edit a post within a certain minimum time frame, the post is unmarked .
Some typos appear only after the "send" button is hit. (one of Murphey's laws)
Exceed another chunk of time & there's a label, pass more time yet & the ability to edit goes away.
Maybe a knowledgeable moderator will chime in & punch in the numbers, if anybody really gives a hoot.
By the way, I also have a pile of pre-'70 Skin Diver magazines. SD made a downward turn in the late '60s & became mostly a book of advertising that ya had to pay for. The 1950s & first part of the '60s are fun to go through though.
We also have some 40 DVDs with SEA HUNT episodes on them.
I often wondered who was more influential in inspiring people to take up diving; Jacques Cousteau or "Mike Nelson".

 

[Rick Murchison]

Any history of Scuba has to include Doc... he has more than a handful of patents on things like fill valves and compressor parts, pumps and water handling equipment. His pumps run from home aquarium pumps to massive flood control pumps.
Sam, I have no doubt that Doc's the real originator of the flag (well, Ruth probably ) It'd be wise to check him out - your "expert" rep demands it.
Rick

 

[Sam Miller III]

[H2Andy]one of the great injustices (i use the world lightly) in diving. Doc indeed came up with the flag, but because Nixon took the lead in marketing (ah, there's that word) the flag, he got credit as the creator.]
________________________________________________________________
Rich Murchison, Mike S & especially H2Andy whom I quoted above

Andy, it is interesting that you are so knowledgeable and demonstative in events that to this day you have remained silient on the issue. Perhaps you can share some of your documentation with this board?

Once again one would question why one such as Mr. Dockery would remain silient the lack of involvement and have no pride in development of the red & white dive flag and would not step forward until after the death of the acknowledged originator Me Ted Nixon.

There has cerainly been ample opportunity for stepping forward and identify his involvement.

In addition to the trial of Toso Vs Burns and the other dismissed litigation in New England, there is considerable copy in varrious national publications about the orgin of the dive flag.

In 1966 I was honored as the very first "Guest Editor" of Skin Diver Magazine. My subject which appeared in the front of the magazine was on the Dive flag and Ted Nixon was mentioned as its father. No response from Mr. Dockery as him being the designer or developer of the Dive Flag

In one of the early issues of Dive Training Magazine a friend and local author, Collen Bondy wrote a glowing report about the history of the dive flag-asking the questions Where? , Why?, How? - No response from Mr. Dockery.

In 1993 "The academy of Marine science and Undersea research" published "Who's who in SCUBA diving."

In that publication by such recognized organization, Mr Nixon, who was probably in the great reef in the sky at that time was idenified as "the designer of the diving flag" (P-133.) Mr. Dockery was listed as a "participant in the designing of the dive flag" P-50. -- So were half the readers of SDM in the late 1950s-including yours truly-- So I would, by this logic, also be considered as a "Participant in designing the dive Flag" ?



Mr., Murchinson thanks for the interesting reading, Mike S for your post and H2Andy I eagerly welcome your response(s.) I am certainly searching for additional supporting references for Mr. Dockery. I some how feel --no certain-- that you will come forth with them

SDM

 

[Sam Miller III]

[The Kraken],
Hey the K...( I like that!--!)

To quote you "Keep in mind too, that scuba gear was already in use in 1941, albeit it was closed circuit."

I an certainly aware of it--but the subject is "Open circuit SCUBA"


Another quote "Cousteau designed his open circuit system in 1943 and it was marketed in France, in Great Britian in 1950, in Canada in 1951 and in the U.S. in 1952.

JYC did not design "Open circuit Scuba." It was Emile Gagnon who was the designer JYC was the one who adapted it to UW useage. It was based and almost identical to a then 90 year old French R&D design. From the 1860s to 1943 there were at least three French units and two international units that had been produced, used and discarded.

JYC & EG were products of being at the right time right place with the right product.

Another Quote "I'm not so sure that you're correct in saying that scuba gear was unknown in the United States prior to 1950."

You are correct--It was know by a VERY select hand full of divers but certainly not known by the general public. We were introduced to diving via Hans Hass B&W movie "Under the red sea" in about 1948 and during the later part of 1948 the Article "First of the Menfish."

However regulators and decent equipment was not available with in the US. EG moved to Canada after WW 11, to work at or to establish a Air Liquide branch. Selling SCUBA equipment in Canada in the 1940s was very close to selling an Eskimo an Ice box...Some how regualtors made their way into the US via Arnie Post et al and some how reached the west coast of the US.

The Air liquide Aqua lung regualtors were junk - If they didn't kill you the lack of diving knowledge would.

The euipment was either one made of of Japanese molds by a fellow in TI or a home made one--I chose the later...You may want to check out my article in the defuct Discover Diving magazine titled "the Mask" (what else would it be titled??)

The fins were Churchills --Black WW11 war surplus until about 1949

Thanks for correcting me--apperciate it!

Now check out the five other units prior to JYC & EG unit!

Cheers,
SDM

 

[mike_s]

Mike S for your post and H2Andy I eagerly welcome your response(s.) I am certainly searching for additional supporting references for Mr. Dockery. I some how feel --no certain-- that you will come forth with them

SDM

Sam

All I asked was about the "guy" who was reffered on on the "back of the bathroom" door at Vortex and who he was since the "reading material" claimed he invented the flag. I didn't remember the name and asked and Rick verfied it was the same Dockery that you were asking about.

I'm not sure what other references you wanted from me.... I can only point you to the back of the bathroom door.

 

[Sam Miller III]

[QUOTE BOB

Folks might be thinking of the July 1953 issue of Popular Science, that has the entertaining article [I]"Build Your Own Diving Lung"[/I] using surplus military gear....

... it's the Popular Science edition that is sought after by collectors, along with the June 1954 edition of Popular Science that has a hand operated hookah pump featured in "How To Build a Beginner's Diving Outfit".[/I] It features one of those dual snorkel masks, garden hose, a hot water bottle, and a gallon can (for the pump cylinder)....

...I'm up in Sacramento & would be happy to let you thumb through my issues of said mags....

I too, recall the dive flag's birthplace as having been in Michigan.
QUOTE...
Bob
___________________________________________________________

Bob you are so corect and thanks for correcting my oversight-- I have had problems with PS & PS all my life. I too, have them and included them in my writtings. I had placed them aside and did not referr to them for their proper titles.

I seldon travel your way any more-- to hot and too far.

Promise me that should you ever travel south let me know in advance and we can visit for a while and get to know each othter better.

Thanks again for the references and kind invite to thumb through your very rare and very valuable magazines,

SDM

 

[Tom Smedley]

Doctor Miller

I know that you have been doing what you do best for an awfully long time. I have read and enjoyed your writing for a number of years. You are joined on this forum by lots of other Curmudgeons who also have lived the history and development of our sport. Only Rick Murchison is older than me.

I have always looked at your works as being well researched and accurate, however your stand on this issue appears to be a defensive “I am right and you are wrong.” Here you have been presented with fresh evidence that should trigger excitement and desire to follow-up but you choose to stand on your existing opinion.

Another thing is that you continually ask that someone else contact the source to send you data. This is your reputation and your legacy as a researcher that is at stake, not some third-party. I understand your hesitance to fly across the nation to interview a possible wild card but a simple telephone call costs little in monetary, energy, or time expenditure. Mr. Dockery is the one who knows the facts and owns the proof or disproof and you are the one who is publishing the book.

Mr. Dockery along with names like Cronin, Erickson, Clark, Rutkowski, Howland, Waterman, Hass, Lavanchy, Cousteau, Hall, McKinney, Soto, Stewart, Smith, Jones, and hundreds of others who were so important in developing and publicizing Scuba as a recreational entity were most likely not at the trials you mention either. This is mostly because they were not published researchers that were hired as expert witnesses. Heck, I wasn’t invited either. Your knowledge and reputation met the agenda of the barrister in charge and I doubt that your testimony was pro-bono.

As evidenced by his real-estate and lifestyle, Mr. Dockery has been exceptionally successful in his endeavors. One does not gain such wealth and baubles by sitting idle. According to your own web page Ted Nixon claimed he was developing a flag in February, 1958. Doc says that Ted was a salesman for Aqualung and marketed nationally a design that he and Ruth were already making and selling locally. That is hearsay and is valid only if it comes from the primary’s mouth but it does present reasonable cause for investigation. I’ve known him, his wife, and his daughter for a number of years and I have no reason to believe that he is not telling the truth. I read of his claim to fame back in the eighties, well before Ted Nixon crossed over.

I realize that my opinion probably means little to you but I am faced with disappointment in an icon. Only a little effort will be offset by increased respect for your works. I, for one, do not feel that your research will lead to a valid and unbiased conclusion unless all leads are followed and investigated. Especially a legend as well and widely known as Doc Dockery and the dive flag.

 

[Sam Miller III]

Any history of Scuba has to include Doc... he has more than a handful of patents on things like fill valves and compressor parts, pumps and water handling equipment. His pumps run from home aquarium pumps to massive flood control pumps.
Sam, I have no doubt that Doc's the real originator of the flag (well, Ruth probably ) It'd be wise to check him out - your "expert" rep demands it.
Rick

Rick,

You are an "Instructor" and should be knowlegeable and interested in the history of recreational diving which I for one find that you are.. And I appreciate you imput.

Yes of course Mr Dockery will be included in Diving history, but not for the developer of the diving flag, that I think I have some how demonstated is the domaine of Mr.Ted Nixon.

Mr. Dockery has only one major contribution in the form of a "invention". perhaps more correctly called and adaption of existing hardware, to the world of recreational diving. That is the Scuba pro "Pneumatic yoke." It was listed in the Scuba pro catalogs as part number #106 and identified as as Mark VI in the 1967 to 1974 catalogs, It did not appear in the 1974 catalog. It's list introductory price was $115.00 and last appeared listing for $118.25 ==why $118.25? GOK?

It was not a main stream popular regualtor and certainly had some design problems. It was pneumatic so a low tank presure and the regulator was prone to automatic disconecting, which it did on several occasions resulting in the loss of a regulator.

This problem was the center of a major legal action of Feinberg vs US Divers, Scuba Pro, et al in 1984. The US divers BC was one issue but the major issue was Scuba Pro Mark VI with its Pneumatic Yoke.

Dr Feinbeg had become entangled in kelp, he attempted to use his MarkVI regulator which he did --but breathed toooo much and the regulator disengaged from the scuba cylinder causing Mr. Feinberg to go unexpectly and certainly prematurely to the big reef in the sky--- Right in front of his 15 year old daugher. The widow was awarded $250,000.00 for the loss of her life mate.

No once again Mr. Dockery did not testify as to the validity of his invention--GOK?

So then you as a active and Knowledgeable diving instructor where should Mr Dockery and his pneumatic yoke be placed in the history of American recreational diving? You who are so insistant tell me....With Sturgil, Prodanovic, Potts, Samson? or perhaps Le Cocq, Anderson, Roberts, Schuler,Jones, Laminica,--great inventors all!

Rick I don't know where and enlist your assistance...

This will probaly be my last post-- I have spent entirely too much time away from my writing and and must return to remain on schedule. I sincerely hope that some how, some way I have provided a sense of diving history and historical diving reserch which there is a big void in modern divers.

Its been fun!

SDM

 

[Rick Murchison]

A version of that pneumatic yoke's still around and in common use as a fill valve. Seems to work there well.
I didn't know anyone had tried to adapt it as part of a first stage... seems like a "bad idea" for that application, eh?
Nevertheless, Doc's "failure to respond" on the flag issue presupposes a knowledge of something to respond to and a desire to set the record straight - and isn't proof of anything. Like Tommy (Smedley, who really is older than I am) says, just give him a call, chat with him.
I'm no expert in diving history, but I'm enough of a student (and witness) of some of it to know first hand that some of what's passed around is flawed. I highly recommend you take the time and effort to at least talk to Doc.
Rick

 

[H2Andy]

Andy, it is interesting that you are so knowledgeable and demonstative in events that to this day you have remained silient on the issue. Perhaps you can share some of your documentation with this board?

....

and H2Andy I eagerly welcome your response(s.) I am certainly searching for additional supporting references for Mr. Dockery. I some how feel --no certain-- that you will come forth with them

hehehe... ok .... i will take your ribbing in a good natured way, since you were gracious and did not take issue with my various comments, which, admittedly, may be difficult for someone to read and not become defensive.

i have to admit, other than the comments of Mr. Dockery himself and the website that was already cited, I do not have any evidence.

here's the page itself: http://www.fatboyscuba.com/diveflaghistory.html

and here's their home page: http://www.fatboyscuba.com/

you could follow up with them and see what their sources are. likewise, you could talk to Mr. Dockery himself.

let me, again, try to make my point, which is to ask you, a clear authority in this field, not to close yourself to the possibility that Mr. Dockery indeed came up with the dive flag design, and to investigate that possibility with all your skill and resources.

as i said, you might play a large role in putting Mr. Dockery back into the history books if he deserves to be there.

that's all.