Scuba Schools of America/Rusty Berry

[drrich2]

Eric:

No fan of sleazy deceitful sales tactics. I suspect desperate times call for desperate measures, and that this impacts LDS practices to some extent. Think about what you'd face if you considered opening a LDS:

1.) You're a low volume dealer, with unpredictable, irregular sales success.

2.) Every piece of gear you sell can be had cheaper from amongst a far better selection within a few days to your door from online vendors who handle much larger volume & can offer prices you can't touch.

3.) The one thing you might have the market cornered on, gas fills, is not lucrative. Not sure how much you make servicing reg.s & what-not.

4.) If you're in a good place, you're not the only LDS around so there's competition.

5.) Much of what you sell, BCD's, reg.s, masks, etc..., are fairly long life items. And in most non-coastal areas, there are probably not huge numbers of local divers right around you.

6.) Even if you have shop instructors and get a cut of the action on classes, a lot of divers are fine with OW & AOW, maybe Nitrox. While Rescue is good training and worthwhile, a lot of divers don't need to pass AOW.

I'm not saying you can't run a morally upright ethical good service & support LDS. I'm saying that the market probably exerts a lot of pressure on LDS's not to be.

Richard.

 

[Wookie]

This may be the future of the walk in LDS.

Not the mega store. Diver's Direct spent a ton of cash putting dive shops in select Gandor Mountains. They took it in the shorts. Why? They hired salesmen to work the scuba instead of scuba people.

The future LDS doesn't look like the one today, but it's hard to argue with the SSI/NASDS tactics. They work, and make a dive shop profitable. Just because those of us who have been around for a while know better doesn't mean that the average Joe off the street doesn't.

 

[boulderjohn]

The future LDS doesn't look like the one today, but it's hard to argue with the SSI/NASDS tactics. They work, and make a dive shop profitable. Just because those of us who have been around for a while know better doesn't mean that the average Joe off the street doesn't.

By all accounts, the shop I used to work for is making a lot more money now than they used to, so, yes, it does work.

 

[AZTinman]

Pity my poor granddaughters... they're just wrapping-up their first dive trip with me in San Carlos, Sonora...

They used the masks and snorkels I bought them a couple of years ago, and fins and boots their parents bought them on sale at Sports Chalet (OMG, not Sports Chalet). I did lay out some cash for $70.00 3 mil wetsuits (I'm sure someone will get a Craig's List deal on these soon because both girls will out grown the suits pretty quickly).

Their rental BCD's and tanks worked just fine.

Of course, then there were those critical pieces of life support equipment that composed their regulator systems... vintage U.S. Divers/Aqualung Conshelf SE-2 first & second stage regs with U.S. Divers/Aqualung Pivot Gauge Consoles. If I remember correctly, I paid around $10.00 for the regulator components when a fire department I volunteered for surplussed the components out. None of the department dive team members wanted to use the Conshelf regs because the department offered to buy everyone shiny new stuff (anyone remember back when DACOR regs were pushed as top of the line regs by dive shops?). Getting the regs serviced cost me more than the regs did. The service tech actually asked me where I got the regs because non showed any evidence of heavy use. I've had these things stored in a closet since the early 90's.

Oh, yeah... I did buy each of the girls a new pair of 'tropical' weight gloves for the trip.

They seemed to have survived the trip just fine and had a great time. If they decide to continue diving, maybe I'll invest in a couple of dive computers for them.

Now, would I have put my granddaughters in the water with junky, unreliable gear? Of course not, but spending thousands of dollars to buy equipment to get them engaged in an activity that they may or may not decide to continue as they get older would make little sense. (BTW... I use a well-serviced Conshelf XIV reg system on my redundant air system)

Prior to the trip, my son and daughter-in-law showed me the fins they bought the girls. I asked they why they bought them that particular brand and model fin. Their reply was, "Because these fins were on sale and it's what we could afford to buy." The fins they bought were the same brand and model that I use to push my underwater camera gear around. Both girls managed quite nicely even though they had to deal with some strong current issues on a couple of their dives (guess they just got lucky with that purchase).

I'm no marketing expert and I'm not trying to make a living selling equipment and/or classes, but maybe we'd see more newbies start the sport and stick with it if we encouraged them to try different kinds of gear, get some actual dives logged, do some research, and shop around for equipment before they make a purchase.

,,,just my opinion.

-AZTinman

 

[drrich2]

AZTinman:

One thing I think we benefit from is that most gear probably works 'decently.' We can quibble about jacket BCD vs. BP/W, split fins vs. paddles, air2 vs. octopus, wrist vs. console computers & whether to go air integrated, etc..., but at the end of the day, if you're doing fairly benign 'bath tub conditions' tropical high viz. low current diving (e.g.: Florida Keys, many Caribbean locations), or even some less ideal locales (e.g.: quarries where it gets cold, drift diving, mediocre viz., etc...) most any of that would work. Maybe not the the best performance, the best price or the best overall value, but most divers can dive with a set of any of that and have a good time.

If they progress into more advanced diving (e.g.: very deep, true cold water, stronger current, overhead, deco.) where environmentally sealed, easier breathing reg.s, BP/W's that can handle doubles & computers that can handle gas switches, fins that let you frog kick & helicopter more effectively, & other gear choices start to really matter, then the difference comes into play. But many divers never do that.

Richard.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

AZTinman:

One thing I think we benefit from is that most gear probably works 'decently.' We can quibble about jacket BCD vs. BP/W, split fins vs. paddles, air2 vs. octopus, wrist vs. console computers & whether to go air integrated, etc..., but at the end of the day, if you're doing fairly benign 'bath tub conditions' tropical high viz. low current diving (e.g.: Florida Keys, many Caribbean locations), or even some less ideal locales (e.g.: quarries where it gets cold, drift diving, mediocre viz., etc...) most any of that would work. Maybe not the the best performance, the best price or the best overall value, but most divers can dive with a set of any of that and have a good time.

If they progress into more advanced diving (e.g.: very deep, true cold water, stronger current, overhead, deco.) where environmentally sealed, easier breathing reg.s, BP/W's that can handle doubles & computers that can handle gas switches, fins that let you frog kick & helicopter more effectively, & other gear choices start to really matter, then the difference comes into play. But many divers never do that.

Richard.

It's funny you mention adverse conditions and locations as a place where specialty gear is most used and preffered. Preffered yes, by the people who have learned about such gear and practices outside of their typical LDS. But like around here, BP/W, frog kicking, long hoses, doubles, gas switches, can lights, scooters, etc...I assume you're describing GUE style diving or similar? is definitely not the norm by any means. And where I live and dive we definitley have very adverse and challenging conditions. The Northern California coastline is fully exposed to any form of Pacific disturbance. We genereally have a healthy swell model of 4' to 8' on an the average good side. The bad side would be winter swells upwards of 20' sometimes more.
The winds in spring can really blow trashing the ocean for days/weeks at a time with steep short interval swells. A 4' to 6' swell spaced 14 seconds apartconsidered with winds from 5 to 15 kts is a pretty damn nice day. The water temps vary from the lowest I've ever experienced of 42 up to 53 which is about the highest. The average is about 48 degrees. Spring is alwyas the coldest water due to Alaskan current upwellings. The vis ranges from 8 to 15 feet on any day that the conditions are tolerable. I have seen vis soar to over 80 feet, and of couse I've seen it at near zero more times than I'd like to remember.

So, with all this info about my local diving environment you'd think more shops would supply the more "advanced" end of gear, but they don't.
All they have around here is the typical display wall of the latest puffed up poofy jackets with elevator levers, split fins, snorkels with check valves and dry balls on the ends, and a rack full of tank bangers and other assorted gizmos. The typical cookie cutter basic recreational vacation diver dive shop. And don't forget all the plastic flash light kits by Princeton tech or UK that come in the kit with a main light small light and tank light all-in-one.
But then somewhere in the midwest or on the east coast in FL I hear about these shops full of tech gear BP/W and all the rest of the stuff.
It doesn't make sense.

And the funniest part is most all of the local divers I see in my area use all the stuff the basic dive shop sells. I only know of not even a handfull of GUE DIR types in my area that actually dive off our coast.


And to respond about the subject of sleazy tactics working, any honest person with any morals that knows anything about long term retail and sustained longevity through repeat customer support will know that ripping off somebody green just because they can and not even batting an eye about it should know that once that customer wises up, not only will they be soured and not come back but they will tell at least 20 people not to go into that store. Gaining a fast buck by dishonesty might work for short term but it will bite you in the rear in the long run.
A good example is the shop that I still go intom because it is the lesser of two awkward places. Every diver that I dove with for years that used to go in there has left. They could have still had all those people plus all the new ones that come in now, but they don't.

Remember the saying about a customer that is treated well will tell three (or 5) people what a great place you have, while somebody who had a bad experience will tell 20 people how bad you suck.

 

[fisheater]

My son is going to get certified in the near future (FINALLY!), and he'll be learning in a BP/W, long hose, etc. Alas, very little of this gear will be available from the local dive shops (the same ones that Eric is talking about). I can only feel so bad, as it is their stocking decisions that lead to my reliance upon on-line sources.

 

[drrich2]

Eric:

I tend to agree about the long-term retail outlook of deliberately making customers into ignorant fools and ripping them off. In this day and age, information is so freely available at least some of them are going to learn what you've done, and spread the word, at least to some.

I've never dove California, much less northern California, but what you describe is quite demanding. So, these divers you see there in standard mainstream recreational gear, are they doing okay with their dives? I don't mean as well as they could or maybe should be. Are they diving, hauling out, having fun and surviving?

I'm not saying that makes it okay, just that it may be enough to sustain the local business model.

As an added thought, it seems at least one of these dive shops must have pondered the possibility of carrying & heavily endorsing a brand name BP/W setup, long hose regulators, and so forth, and teaching classes this way. Seems a shop could get a good rep. with the most knowledgable local divers who would spread the word, and carve out a niche for itself offering something the competitors aren't (at least at first).

So, I take it that hasn't happened. Which begs the question why not?

Richard.

 

[fisheater]

Richard:

I've asked that question at some of our local shops. The underlying reason is twofold. One, even though we've got great diving here in NorCal, the vast majority of California divers only dive on vacation in the tropics, hence they're fodder for tropical-oriented gear. Two, the major brands demand that the shops sell full sets of their gear. So, if the LDS sells the local diver a major brand regulator, along with a BP/W, then that LDS will have to find someone else to the sell the major brand jacket-style BCD to, in order to maintain the dealership status and/or pricing status.

 

[Wookie]

Richard:

I've asked that question at some of our local shops. The underlying reason is twofold. One, even though we've got great diving here in NorCal, the vast majority of California divers only dive on vacation in the tropics, hence they're fodder for tropical-oriented gear. Two, the major brands demand that the shops sell full sets of their gear. So, if the LDS sells the local diver a major brand regulator, along with a BP/W, then that LDS will have to find someone else to the sell the major brand jacket-style BCD to, in order to maintain the dealership status and/or pricing status.

In many cases it's worse than that. I am a strong proponent of supporting my LDS. It's a business decision for me, they support my business. Many years ago I switched from BCD (I had 4500 or so dives at the time) to BP/W. I got my first backplate from my lovely bride, she was a cave diver, and I needed a wing and STA. The 800 lb gorilla dive shop in Houston was the Dive Rite dealer, and since I know Lamar, I decided to get Dive Rite. I went in with part numbers and cash. I knew it would have to be ordered. 2 months later with no STA or wing in sight, I went online to ScubaToys and bought the parts I needed. As it turns out, the shop wouldn't sell me "tech gear" because they didn't want the liveaboard I run to "go tech". This shop, BTW, has since fully embraced the SSI/NASDS sales techniques that John described above.

So, it's not just that tropical warm water gear dominates the shops sales model, it's also that the shops are ignorant that any other type of gear could possibly be used for the type of diving that the shop THINKS the customer should be doing.