Scuba Etiquette: Tipping?

[Drewski]

I think you're being naive here, really.

Who do you THINK is going to "chip in" for the DM's income if the charter op paid the DMs?

THE CUSTOMER

Because the charter rate would need to be increased to cover that cost. And the fact of the matter is the cost of the charter would increase considerably MORE than the $10-$20 you might tip. Why? Because the dive op would incur additional payroll, accounting, benefit, and tax costs necessary to pay the DMs "a living wage"?

So if you'd rather pony up an additional $30 for the "cost" of the charter instead of digging into your wallet for a $20 tip, you're just not thinking it through.

OK, two types of threads in "Basic Scuba Discussion" draw out the poster in me: tipping and narcosis.

For you newbies that don't know old RJP here, he's always one to bemoan the existence of the "poor" Divemaster between his dive trips to Truk Lagoon, the Red Sea, Hawaii and other far away places. Don't think for a minute he just put together that long post a few pages back, it's been around for awhile. In fact, this is a relatively "short" thread on tipping. Try reading this one:

The "tipping" thread - Page 9

The "tipping" thread - Page 15

Now, if ya'll ever been up to NJ, (RJP's home state) you know they gots a LAW that says you can't pump your own gas. Gas stations employ someone to sit outside and pump gas for you. Heck of a job actually - boiling heat, rain, snow, hazardous substances to deal with (gas AND the crazies) and I never see anyone tip these poor folks. If memory serves, RJP characterizes this type of job as one that "isn't traditionally tipped." Kinda like police officers, firefighters and members of the military, along with FedEx and UPS drivers, huh?

So, is gas more expensive in NJ?

Nope, but somehow it gets pumped for you and the owners still make a profit.

Look, here's the simple truth. We tip people in the United States because WE fall into the trap of doing it. The owner of the business suggests it to the customer and then increases his or her margin.

How long do you think the waiting staff of a restaurant would continue working if tips went to $0? NOT long. Sure, the owner might be tempted to raise prices to cover the difference, but it wouldn't happen. Customers would go elsewhere. If it happened everywhere at once, the wait staff would get paid and prices would remain the same. If it happened slowly, there would be ups and downs but the outcome would be the same.

Again, RJP, if you want to change the system, STOP "volunteering" to be a Divemaster and get your own boat....

Ya know, I REALLY need to come up and dive Gypsy Blood this summer just to get my money's worth from you. Because if you wanted a GOOD tip from me, you would DAMN well work your AS$ off to get it...

Keep in mind, what I say is an just OPINION. Everyone has one and mine, on this topic, is loud and probably NOT the nicest. Please feel free to make up your own mind...

 

[Web Monkey]

Ya know, I REALLY need to come up and dive Gypsy Blood this summer just to get my money's worth from you. Because if you wanted a GOOD tip from me, you would DAMN well work your AS$ off to get it...

I think I just don't understand the entire concept of someone being on a boat to do stuff for me. As long as the captain makes it to the dive-site and the boat doesn't sink, what other services are really necessary?

Most of the stuff DMs do makes me uncomfortable anyway. I don't want anybody messing with my equipment, changing tanks or planning my dive, and I'm sure not giving anybody my fins or anything else when I'm coming up the ladder.

How did this type of "service" become some sort of standard?

Terry

 

[alara1972]

Yes, lots of the crew depend on tips and the few I have chartered with have put out a tip jar at the end of the trip and the DM distributed the money with the rest of the crew. I usually tip $10 per crew member...

 

[Nemrod]

I usually tip about 20% of the price of the charter, or round up to an even bill. Sometimes individual tips might be warranted but I always assume the captain or the top deckhand/DM share the tips so I give it to whichever is handy while it is on my mind. I don't know if that is right or not, seems good enough to me. As I have gotten older I don't mind somebody helping with my gear as long as they don't nanny me, I don't need to be nannied or coddled and don't like it. I have also found as time goes on that most DMs and captains and hands give me space and treating them nicely gets their respect and helpful attitudes. If you act like you know what you are doing most assume you do, tattered Jet Fins tell the tale.

If I ask a hand to handle my camera for me and place it a certain way, if he/she does then I will usually give them an extra tip for helping me out.

N

 

[Dave1981]

I think I just don't understand the entire concept of someone being on a boat to do stuff for me. As long as the captain makes it to the dive-site and the boat doesn't sink, what other services are really necessary?

Most of the stuff DMs do makes me uncomfortable anyway. I don't want anybody messing with my equipment, changing tanks or planning my dive, and I'm sure not giving anybody my fins or anything else when I'm coming up the ladder.

How did this type of "service" become some sort of standard?

Terry

The majority of divers I come across have limited experience, and a lot are even unable to set up their own equipment properly! Mostly up to rescue diver level people want someone to guide them. If you're diving with me you've requested me to lead the dive and as such I will do so and plan our dive. This is what most divers want, climb into some gear, get underwater then walk away.

If you want to dive away from the group this isn't considered regular, but ask about the divesite and show me that you have the experience and a proper plan and that's ok. Some centers will not allow this at all though for fear of being sued. Also the one of the reasons why I inspect your gear, check your air and nanny you through the deep water entry. We have to assume you know nothing, for an experienced diver this is a minor inconvenience. For someone who needs the help it makes all the difference.

Don't blame the DMs for this, the trend is that being certified to dive alone does not mean you have the urge or ability, all it takes to change this is to make the DM aware of you and your buddies experience.

As for not passing your fins or loose equipment into the boat, that's just plain dumb.

Dave

 

[sibermike7]

The majority of divers I come across have limited experience, and a lot are even unable to set up their own equipment properly!

That is just unbelievable. Well, O.K. poor choice of words, I believe you, but ... I don't think I would want to dive with anyone that couldn't set up their own gear. Holy cow! They have no business getting in the water! I don't suppose they are providing tips to the DM as much as life insurance!

Mostly up to rescue diver level people want someone to guide them.

That is a little different and I would expect to tip a good guide. If I haven't been to a particular site, a guide is (usually) appreciated because it allows the best use of my time. When I was in Boynton Beach with Kevin last year, he knew where certain eels, octopuses, groupers, ... hung out and was able to show us.

fear of being sued... one of the reasons why I inspect your gear, check your air and nanny you through the deep water entry. We have to assume you know nothing, for an experienced diver this is a minor inconvenience. For someone who needs the help it makes all the difference.

It is kind of funny, but when we dive here in Estonia, most of us are trained ice divers. We habitually pretty thoroughly check every diver on every dive. It is just habit. Nobody thinks it is strange for a newb to as his instructor, "Is your air on? Did you check this or that? ..."

As for not passing your fins or loose equipment into the boat, that's just plain dumb.

Don't know about being dumb, but on my last boat, the DO asked us all to remove our fins once coming to the ladder and hand them up. I think that it would have been pretty obstinate to ignore his requests, but that is just me.

 

[pelsung]

I do the usual $5 per tank...but

DMs do provide a useful and necessary role and they should be paid accordingly by the dive operator they work for. The same way a hospital pays a nurse or a bank pays a loan officer. You don’t hear hospitals saying, “we just can’t afford nurses”. Why? Nurses are necessary and will not work for free! Aren’t DMs necessary, aren’t DMs professionals – they carry liability insurance….so why do they agree to work for free/tips?

Would you want your dentist to say “I’ll knock $100 off you bill, and - if I do a good job you can tip me that $100 back”….What do you mean….if you do a good job???? You expect your dentist to do a good job, regardless. Do we not expect DMs to do a good job? So why do they work for free?

DMs work for free because they are willing to. If all DMs said No, we deserve to get paid and will not work for free, guess what – they would start being paid as the professionals they are. As long as they keep lining up to work for nothing….that’s what they will get. Its simply capitalism, supply and demand.

If boat owners don’t want to add “employees” due to overhead, why don’t DMs work as consultants, independent contractors, etc? I guess they can work for free if they really want to…but if that’s the case – don’t complain.

For dive operators - yea, cost of running business is a pain….but that doesn’t mean I want to subsidize your inability to compete in the market. Offer a better product and people will pay more….just compare the price of panties at Victoria Secret vs. Wal-mart – which one do you want your gal wearing….and really do you mind paying more for that red transparent lace?

I do think many divers need DMs….but personally, I don't want to much from them...I don't want them clipping their little SMBs to my BC, (if they'd look - they would see I have my own). I don't want them putting my fins on for me or taking them off when I get out of the boat. I don't want them to nanny me... I just want to be anchored to a good place on the wreck and left alone to enjoy my dives & my friends… and I'll use my own reel thank you. But that’s me….doesn’t apply to everyone.

If there is a real emergency the DM is absolutely necessary and worth his/her weight in gold...again - see my opinion of why DMs should be independent contractors or staff just like boat captians are. Not volunteers who work for free or the ocassional beer. Not that beer is bad )

 

[Dave1981]

That is just unbelievable. Well, O.K. poor choice of words, I believe you, but ... I don't think I would want to dive with anyone that couldn't set up their own gear. Holy cow! They have no business getting in the water! I don't suppose they are providing tips to the DM as much as life insurance!

It's amazing what you get used to dealing with people who've done 3day OW courses a year ago then not dived since. These guys pretty much never tip, and regularly seem to think we're trying to rip them off by suggesting a scuba tune up. But they've got a c-card so the shop sends them out for us to deal with. We do develop an interesting skill set dealing with these divers though.. :doh2:

It is kind of funny, but when we dive here in Estonia, most of us are trained ice divers. We habitually pretty thoroughly check every diver on every dive. It is just habit. Nobody thinks it is strange for a newb to as his instructor, "Is your air on? Did you check this or that? ..."


Don't know about being dumb, but on my last boat, the DO asked us all to remove our fins once coming to the ladder and hand them up. I think that it would have been pretty obstinate to ignore his requests, but that is just me.

Yep, that pretty much covers it and particularly when the leading DM or Instructor will have no assigned buddy it's easy to forget your own gear. Wanting people not to check up on you is really the first stage in a chain of events that could end up in an accident.

 

[BDSC]

I always tip when I go out of the country on a dive vacation. It's usually a resort where you dive every day, either 2 or 3 dives a day, and those folks (DM's/boat captains) do this for a living. It's not a weekend thing. The vast majority of my experiences have been very positive and the crews have been friendly and hard working. So I don't mind tipping these folks at all because even though I don't need anyone to help me with gear or get in and out of the water, etc., they safely get the boat to and from the dive sites and do a nice briefing. (And I usually tip very well)

I also realize that in many of these places, what we take for granted here in the states may be considered luxury items there and not easily afforded. So I feel my tip is a real help for those folks to live and provide for their families.

I look at a day out on the coast here in the states a little differently. As far as I can remember, the DM's on the boats I have been out on are like RJP, a weekend volunteer. I have yet to meet one who depends on anything/money they get from doing it to help in making a living. Usually it just goes to support their scuba habit.

When I am on a boat like that, the only thing I depend on a DM for is a briefing of the site. I can set up my gear, check it all out, plan my dive, get in the water, do the dive, and get out with no help needed.

I will tip a DM on a trip like that if I need their services for something other than what I mentioned or if that person just turns out to have a really incredible personality that makes the trip to be something much more than what I expected.

I know that RJP gave an example of how at the end of the day they have basically worked for about $2.00 an hour which sure seems like a paltry amount. However, what he failed to include in their wages/tips is the $125 they don't have to pay to go out on the boat to get in a couple of dives. When you factor that in, it changes things quite a bit.

I have no doubt that there are times guys like RJP will have folks on the boat who need all kinds of help doing all kinds of things and the trip for them is hard work. But there will be other times when the folks will be experienced and not need anyone's help (which is most of the situations I have been in) and for the DM, it can be much easier and they can relax and enjoy the diving just like the rest of us without paying to do so.

 

[RJP]

I have no doubt that there are times guys like RJP will have folks on the boat who need all kinds of help doing all kinds of things and the trip for them is hard work. But there will be other times when the folks will be experienced and not need anyone's help (which is most of the situations I have been in) and for the DM, it can be much easier and they can relax and enjoy the diving just like the rest of us without paying to do so.

Sorry but that just ain't the case. At least on our boat, most people need help. Not because they're helpless or don't know what they are doing, but because they're diving doubles with multiple stage/deco bottles and they simply do need help getting in and out of the water, etc. (They are also good enough/confident enough/smart enough divers to ASK for help when needed.) Multiply that x18 divers, plus catch bags, spearguns, cameras, etc, plus running the boat lines, tying in, untying, cleaning the boat, etc.

Our crew is good. I think we do a good job of being there for the passengers when needed, and being out of the way when not. 90% of our passengers are "regulars" and we know what they want/need and are usually handing them something just as they are ready for. We know who wants their gear line hung where/when, who likes their deco bottle slung left or right, who wants their gun before they jump vs who wants it handed to them once they're in the water.

I do enjoy my one "free" dive and do enjoy crewing on the boat and helping other divers, but never been a day yet where I could just "relax and enjoy the diving" that I wasn't a paying passenger on the boat. (And I'm a pretty good tipper on those days!)