Scuba diving vs free diving certification?

[dmaziuk]

I'm just saying I've been researching freedive training, because I want to get it, and it seems more involved than just "hold your breath and swim". Locally, 2 people have died in recent months freediving. Natalia Molchanova, a world class freediver with 41 world records, went missing on a dive a couple months ago. She was only doing a 35m dive when she disappeared. She could hold her breath for 9 minutes underwater. Her body was never recovered so nobody really knows what happened. The most decorated freediver ever, died on a 35m dive. Just sayin.

Yes, I know.

I'm not advocating going to 40 m with little training nor am I doing that myself: I prefer having the tank down there with me. I'm just saying that a healthy athletic person with decent swimming ability shouldn't have that big a problem getting close to 40 m. At least not a physical problem.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Yes, I know. I'm not advocating going to 40 m with little training nor am I doing that myself: I prefer having the tank down there with me. I'm just saying that a healthy athletic person with decent swimming ability shouldn't have that big a problem getting close to 40 m. At least not a physical problem.

I think your calculations are a little enthusiastic. 40 m by someone who never freedived would be more than quite a challenge. People train for years to attempt those depths on one breath. Swimming in a pool and doing laps is completely different than leg propulsion freediving with long fins. There is also lung squeeze and the psychological and physiological factors of being that deep on breath hold. It's much harder than you think. It also depends on water clarity and temperature. In Hawaii I could do twice the depths as here in NorCal, where water temps are in the high 40's and vis averages 10 feet, and it's rough with surge and lots of kelp. We are lucky to get to 30 or 40 feet on a good day and that's with years of training for ab diving.

 

[spectrum]

If one get certified in scuba diving does it apply in free diving and visa versa?

Does the same concept apply in both?

Scuba requires certification to purchase compressed air, get on charters or into certain dive parks.

Free diving, skin diving or snorkeling, all variations on the same basic activity are uncontrolled. Some agencies offer worthwhile training. A good mentor can also help you get gong. If you are really talking about what is commonly referred to as free diving (going to significant depth) there are places you can go for training and lots of material available on developing that skill. Be aware that if you start diving down there are some gotchas like shallow water blackout that you want to be aware of and have precautions in place like a buddy. These activities are the ultimate scuba prerequisites. With comfort snorkeling/skin diving you simply add a cylinder, BC and regulator and begin scuba dive training. You have already licked a huge portion of the typical scuba student challenges.

Pete

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I can do 25+ swimming horizontally, no fins. In freediving fins and no wall I can do double that easy. With a little breathing and a little weight I shouldn't have a problem going below 30. I was a swimmer back in school and swim for exercise now, but I'm pushing 50 and I had 25+ years of smoking, sex, drugs, and rockenroll in between. Someone half my age with clean lungs should be able to do 30+ m without extensive training.

---------- Post added October 7th, 2015 at 06:39 PM ----------

See how fast you can swim in freediving fins with no gear, see how long you can hold your breath, multiply and take half of that. Do the math, you might be surprised at how deep you should be able to freedive with very little practice.

I've done many thousands of free dives and have never got close to 40 m depth. Your assertion that anyone can freedive that deep with little practice is ridiculous. Equalization and the pressure alone past 90 feet, is a huge issue.

So what is your deepest freedive?

---------- Post added October 7th, 2015 at 09:58 PM ----------

I'm just saying I've been researching freedive training, because I want to get it, and it seems more involved than just "hold your breath and swim". Locally, 2 people have died in recent months freediving. Natalia Molchanova, a world class freediver with 41 world records, went missing on a dive a couple months ago. She was only doing a 35m dive when she disappeared. She could hold her breath for 9 minutes underwater. Her body was never recovered so nobody really knows what happened. The most decorated freediver ever, died on a 35m dive. Just sayin.

Good freedive training is very valuable.. I've only taken the most basic course, but there is a lot to learn about the sport and yourself. Don't believe half the stuff you read on scubaboard.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Don't believe half the [-]stuff[/-] crap you read on scubaboard.

There, fixed it for you.

---------- Post added October 7th, 2015 at 10:59 PM ----------

These activities are the ultimate scuba prerequisites. With comfort snorkeling/skin diving you simply add a cylinder, BC and regulator and begin scuba dive training. You have already licked a huge portion of the typical scuba student challenges.

Pete

People who learn freediving first have a whole different skill set and knowledge that the typical OW student with no previous in-water experience simply doesn't get. The two eventual dive styles end up completely different. Previous freedivers who eventually get certified have an imbedded knowledge of streamlining, efficiency, propulsion techniques, and the list goes on. They tend to bring their skin diving skills to their new scuba world and as a result become much better quicker. People who go straight to OW scuba don't get any of that, especially with todays gear and training techniques.
It's harder for a modern trained scuba diver to learn freediving then it is for a competent freediver to learn scuba. The freediver will be better at both.
I know that will piss off a lot of people but I think it's true.

 

[TMHeimer]

Eric S, I love your line "that the typical OW student with no previous in-water experience"....yyyyeah...Did you mean that it's typical that some have no in-water experience, or that the typical OW student has none? Either way that certainly fits nowadays. By no previous in-water experience do you mean no swimming or snorkeling, or never set foot in water deeper than waist deep?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Eric S, I love your line "that the typical OW student with no previous in-water experience"....yyyyeah...Did you mean that it's typical that some have no in-water experience, or that the typical OW student has none? Either way that certainly fits nowadays. By no previous in-water experience do you mean no swimming or snorkeling, or never set foot in water deeper than waist deep?

All of the above.
I mean people who may know how to swim OK and may have swam as kids, or goofed around or in a body of water, like most kids do.
Then they don't really swim much after that if at all due to lack of pool or whatever. They may swim or "dip" into a lake or ocean on vacation.
These people aren't scared of the water per se but they aren't dedicated water people either. Then they decide to get certified for whatever reason, maybe for an upcoming trip. Some may have some previous snorkeling experience, and some may not.
The difference with somebody who takes up serious freediving, not just laying on top of the water snorkeling, is they learn the dynamics of moving through the water on a dive, they begin to get their muscles in shape and conditioned for the activity, and they learn just by default the "natural" and instinctive way to dive. This is more what I mean by "in-water experience", someone who has made a dedicated effort to breath hold dive and stay under for longer than a few seconds and actually do some skindiving.
So then they take this info with them to their OW class, they already know how to clear a mask, they already know the distortions caused by the face plate, they have calmer nerves, they're more relaxed, etc. The ones that freedive in rougher more challenging conditions for a few years before they get certified really have an advantage. Those are the ones that breeze right through, they already have a heads up on what to expect because they've already been down there.
The ones that have no freediving experience or never had a mask or flippers on ever are taught the conventional way all loaded up with all the regular trappings of modern scuba teaching (gear included) and are planted on the bottom doing skills, and they think this is how diving is supposed to be because they have nothing else to compare it to.

 

[charlier]

OMG, I am not sure where to begin. To quote DD with editorial assistance from Eric, Don't believe half the [-]stuff[/-]crap you read on scubaboard.

About a year and half ago, I decided to take up free diving. I wanted to try something different and get wet without all the scuba gear, streamlined or minimal as it is. As a DM, that guides in SE Asia and loves to dive in current-rich and remote areas, I thought that serious freedive training would make me a safer DM and diver. It would also allow me to freedive with silence and calmness. The free dive training was perhaps the best experience I've encountered in a long time. My first three day class was challenging. It combined learning how to relax using yoga and training in the water. My second round of training was equally outstanding. From learning how to rescue a companion from 30 m, learning how to equalize traveling down the rope, dealing with pressure, static and dynamic apnea training, and yoga that focused on breath inhalation and exhalation. I always wondered, could I ditch my gear and fin up 40m to the surface on less than one breath hold, or could I safely free dive and explore the underwater world at 20m. Free dive training has transformed my scuba diving, from freedive fins and high quality slick skin wet suits, to efficient and streamlined free dive kicks, and mostly importantly the skills that allow me to free dive with a peaceful silence.

To safely free dive to 20 m, let alone to 40 m is an absurd assertion. I had to unlearn automatic habits from scuba, in order to equalize deeper than 25m. Based on my limited experience, dynamic apnea in a pool does not scale to free diving in open water. Free diving blends mental calmness, relaxation, and yoga in a beautiful underwater world. charlie

 

[dmaziuk]

So what is your deepest freedive?

No idea: we were just goofing around, had no depth gauges, nor very many opportunities to go straight down to any significant depth in clear warm water. Edit: according to these guys: ????????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ? ????? ??????? most sites there are at 5-15 m, I must've done about 10 there. I don't remember having fins at the time.

Eric's right, though: the ability to swim to the bottom of a 7-or-so-m well and sit there for a couple of minutes does not translate to ability swim straight down for 30 seconds or whatever it'd take to cover 40m in decent fins. So I take it all back.

Now of course I wonder: if I were growing up where there was easy access to deep clear water, would I have SWB'ed my a** out of existence before reaching puberty?

 

[Water Boy76]

If you had to choose one you should get Freedive Certified rather than SCUBA. All SCUBA guys do sit around and fight about silly things on the internet.