Scuba Diving Self Situational Awareness Ribbon

[Subcooled]

I actually looked at her profile but missed the little story.
Quite sad, but her approach is also kind of sad, or, at least, kind of inept.
SB is a pretty good group and many try to be very helpful. There might well be some good ideas to help her out. I think the main point is that a little ribbon is not likely to solve problems with making better buddies. I presume she would like to solve a problem. If she just wants to commemorate her cousin, the ribbon also probably doesn't so that very well either. I don't have any good suggestions for a more useful approach for her, but others might. Bad buddies are easy to find and hard to fix.

Isn't it a bit unfair to blame the buddy?

1. we do not know what happened
2. it is unclear whether a dive buddy could have helped or not (sometimes there is nothing you can do)
3. your dive buddy is not responsible for you - he or she will usually try to help, though
4. buddy separation is not always intentional. Current, visibility and other factors do play a role.

We are discussing this accident now. If we could get the details then we might be able to make the world a better place.

 

[Subcooled]

He was a beginner diver and 11/21/2020 he died scuba diving. He was left alone

A tragic event indeed - and nobody was there to help!
We should not blame the buddy though. I'm sure he or she does not feel exactly great after this...

 

[drrich2]

An emphasis on the buddy system can potentially backfire. If you turn it into 'You are your buddy's baby sitter, and if anything happens and he doesn't make it back from the dive, it's presumed your fault unless you noticed the problem right away and did everything right in the eyes of your future arm chair critics,' some won't want to be dive buddies. Solo, unofficial solo, just diving with the group without a true assigned buddy, who wants to turn their holiday recreation into a liability trap?

You know those liability waivers most every dive operator we dive with has us sign releasing them from liability to the full extent of the law? Wonder what one for buddy diving would look like?

 

[Subcooled]

Here's where i have a problem with this...

From her website: "Many accidents can be prevented if rules were made to be followed, dive centers ran responsibly, & the enforcement of following rules made priority. The Buddy system has been so disregarded & the failure of it has lead to many accidents & scuba diving fatalities."

Um...rules do exist, dive centers are run responsibly, the buddy system is not disregarded. Enforcement? How? Do we need Volunteer Officer Picklestein to make sure we're in compliance?

I'm sorry about the fatality, but the above is complete garbage. At some point, the liability falls on the diver, their education, experience and understanding of their limits.

The claimed failure of the buddy system did not cause the accident.

• at worst it prevented rescue
• or it might have prevented a double fatality

 

[Wibble]

The worst part of fatal diving "accidents" (we prefer to call them incidents) is that they're rarely observed by others due to limited visibility and the casualty cannot speak. Some information can be gleaned from the dive computer(s); some from analysing the kit (e.g. gas in the cylinder, etc.); and some from the post mortem if the body was recovered. It's all conjecture as to what happened and what circumstances lead to that incident.

Alas in a lot of cases much of this information isn't available making the root cause analysis difficult. This is why most people answering here aren't assuming anything because we just don't know.

Most incidents aren't because of one failure. For example you don't run out of air without first failing to monitor your gas, something instilled into all divers before getting in the water. Loosing your buddy really isn't an issue; virtually all novices stick to the "if you've lost your buddy, look around for one minute and then ascend"; all divers are trained how to ascend.

Generally there's no blame per-se; it's mainly what we call human factors -- people making what turns out to be the wrong choices in stressful situations.

All deaths before their time are tragic. It's made doubly so if the cause is unknown, making closure for the relatives very difficult. Wanting to blame something is a natural part of the grieving process. We all feel your pain.

 

[SDSA]

Hi @SDSA, sorry to hear about your cousin. My deepest condolence to you and your family.

Your mission is a noble one, but it is also challenging. Maybe you want to get in touch with Gareth Lock, who perhaps can help you with your ribbon:
Scuba board account: @GLOC
Facebook group: The Human Diver: Human Factors in Diving

I appreciate your help I will do so. Thank you again. And im not doing this for my cousin I'm doing this for scuba divers because of what happened to him.

 

[SDSA]

The worst part of fatal diving "accidents" (we prefer to call them incidents) is that they're rarely observed by others due to limited visibility and the casualty cannot speak. Some information can be gleaned from the dive computer(s); some from analysing the kit (e.g. gas in the cylinder, etc.); and some from the post mortem if the body was recovered. It's all conjecture as to what happened and what circumstances lead to that incident.

Alas in a lot of cases much of this information isn't available making the root cause analysis difficult. This is why most people answering here aren't assuming anything because we just don't know.

Most incidents aren't because of one failure. For example you don't run out of air without first failing to monitor your gas, something instilled into all divers before getting in the water. Loosing your buddy really isn't an issue; virtually all novices stick to the "if you've lost your buddy, look around for one minute and then ascend"; all divers are trained how to ascend.

Generally there's no blame per-se; it's mainly what we call human factors -- people making what turns out to be the wrong choices in stressful situations.

All deaths before their time are tragic. It's made doubly so if the cause is unknown, making closure for the relatives very difficult. Wanting to blame something is a natural part of the grieving process. We all feel your pain.

Thank you for the helpful points. And yes it is still pending and it will be 1 yr Sunday. And all his gear was great it was fine gasses we're fine. He shouldn't have been out there at night he was a beginner and the dive buddy he used left the country 2 says later the girlfriend gave different versions so it's unfortunate that questions won't be answered but he was only on the water 15. At some point yes it his also the fault of the diver but he had a severe incident and he was a top neurosurgeon one of America's top 50. Yes he is to blame but I just feel there is lil more to his accident and maybe that's why it's stil pending. Whatever the outcome I hope all divers remember to always be aware for any situation or change. And I just would like to help those remember its importance. Thanks. You

 

[SDSA]

"I lost my cousin who I was very close to. Hed just turned 45 days (YEARS?) before his accident. He was a beginner diver and was in Catalina Island on Nov 21, 2020. Although what happened still isn't clear, it is clear that he was left alone by his dive buddy"

A 45 years old new diver died. His diving buddy was not present. Nobody dies of being alone, though, so there has been some sort of a problem. New divers do not dive very deep. Hence, statistically, it could have been a panic caused by a myriad of things (everyone can easily make an emergency swimming ascent from 80 feet given a calm state of mind). The accident was unfortunate of course and the reasoning behind this ribbon (self awareness) is valid.

Thank you thank you and I hope to have some of you help support this and maybe the ribbon can help remind every diver to be aware

 

[SDSA]

An emphasis on the buddy system can potentially backfire. If you turn it into 'You are your buddy's baby sitter, and if anything happens and he doesn't make it back from the dive, it's presumed your fault unless you noticed the problem right away and did everything right in the eyes of your future arm chair critics,' some won't want to be dive buddies. Solo, unofficial solo, just diving with the group without a true assigned buddy, who wants to turn their holiday recreation into a liability trap?

You know those liability waivers most every dive operator we dive with has us sign releasing them from liability to the full extent of the law? Wonder what one for buddy diving would look like?

I disagree from what I've learned isn't a dive buddy who agrees to go out as one taking the responsibility of being the more experienced diver and ultimately yes so to speak being the baby sitter being the teacher being the one responsible. If a dive buddy doesn't take his position serious or with responsibility then I'm sorry that dive buddy has no business having the title dive buddy. You research the meaning of dive buddy and say ur right. If u want just someone to dive with u take a friend but u don't take on the title dive buddy if u can't handle the full position that it holds. A baby sitter please and dive buddies are supposed to be what arms reach away aren't they yes they are. Ur comment has no valid points just nonsense why be a dive buddy then right exactly.

 

[SDSA]

Have you considered your delayed return and replies render you unsuitable for your appointed position

Unsuitable for my appointed position wow what position was I appointed? Answer that