Scuba diver goes missing off Catalina Island

[CuzzA]

I like the tag idea.

From living in Florida all my life and owning a boat since 1999, all I can say is the ocean is unforgiving. I've had a friend's boat go down and tread water for hours. Every year we hear the stories.

I bought a PLB years ago. It goes with me on my boat every time in my ditch bag. Since taking up scuba diving it was a top priority to bring the PLB with me since I would be physically seperated from the boat. I own the ACR ResQLink+ and attach it to my waist harness with a Custom Divers PLB canister. It's cheap life insurance.

My advice, if you're diving in the ocean, a PLB is must have equipment. Wouldn't dive without one.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

Tags that each diver is physically responsible for are much more reliable . . . If a tag is missing you find out physically why before you go anywhere.

You had it correct when you started: It's easy to screw up a roll call. No system is foolproof but some are better than others. (And to be clear, I'm talking generalities as I have no specific info as to who/how the roll call was done in Laurel's case.)

I disagree with the tag system. First of all, it's NOT foolproof. Someone jumps in without taking their tag, someone loses their tag underwater, or someone forgets to hang it back up (which is the lesser of the three issues). But I disagree with the underlying philosophy which is that it puts the onus on the diver to account for their whereabouts through the tag. No. While I do feel divers have responsibilities on a dive, I think the tag system can give the DMs a false sense of confidence.

No one is allowed to remove or hang anothers tag. Get caught doing it? Done diving and banned from the boat.

Nice in theory but hard to prove (perhaps we convene a kangaroo court at the stern?), people will always say "I didn't move it" or "He told me to" and I don't think boats are going to ban people, let alone for violating what is IMHO a flawed system. (As best I can tell, though touted and pushed by DAN when it first came out, it did not gain wide acceptance.)

I'm also not a fan of the DM-buries-head-in-slate-and-calls-names system. (In fact, that was the problem with the Drifting Dan incident.) Again, puts the onus on the diver to account for themselves and too easy to mis-hear a response.

When we were running local trips, before we moved the boat, our DMs would walk around the boat and physically see each and every person on the list (we usually carried 25-35 divers/trip) before they were checked off. If you didn't know someone's name, you went up and asked them. While this was done, another DM kept watch on the deck to make sure someone didn't jump in while we were roll-calling. Once we had everyone, then someone else (crew or third DM) did a tank count to re-confirm.

Nothing's perfect but this was a system we felt comfortable with.

- Ken

 

[undrwater]

Board and grease pen?

Name: Diver

In the water: Out of the water: Third Party Check (DM):
Initial Initial Initial

 

[undrwater]

Can't make it look right, but there would be initials under each item.

 

[Leejnd]

So...just to reiterate that we still have no specific information about what happened, and I'm still holding out hope that it's not what is being suggested. (I feel I must preface my comment with that, because I don't want to be accused of taking sides once the true story comes out - and it hasn't yet.)

That being said, I'm happy that we are at least talking about this because it IS such a basic thing in diving: you don't move the boat until all divers are PHYSICALLY, bodily, accounted for. I'm with Ken on this - I don't like the tag system, for all the reasons he stated.

My favorite dive boat is the Peace out of Ventura. They take their roll calls very seriously. Everyone must shut the hell up during roll call. NO chatting, NO showing the great shots you just got on your camera...you sit there quietly and wait for your number/name to be called, and you get some pretty ugly stink-eye if you so much as whisper to someone else. (I know...I've gotten it.)

The DM with the slate (yes he uses a slate) does not lower his head and read off names - he looks at WHO is responding to the name to ensure it's the actual person the name belongs to. It's stated very clearly in the initial boat briefing that nobody is allowed to answer for someone else. If you're in the bathroom or puking off the side, they are going to see you doing whatever it is you're doing before we leave. I've been forced to quickly hike up my wetsuit and hightail it out of the head so Steve can see my face during roll call.

That puts the onus on both the diver and the boat, as I do believe that both are equally responsible. But even this system is not perfect...although it seems as close as we can get. Someone mishears a name and and answers when it's not their turn? The DM should recognize the face and catch that. Water on the slate? Use a better slate that won't smear when splashed.

In the end, it is the boat that makes the decision to move or not move...so it is on them if they move without all souls on board. If they checked off somebody who isn't actually on the boat, then they had to have done something massively wrong - either they didn't get an eyeball on the person who shouted "here", or they let someone else tell them someone was onboard, or they checked a name without calling it, or some other huge screw-up.

I'm sooooo hoping this is not what happened, and I will not assume it is until we know for sure.

 

[ChrisM]

This ^. IMO the only foolproof way is to look someone in the eye.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I am surprised that the buddy system is not also mentioned in this discussion. If people are diving with buddies, then the buddy should notice that someone is missing.

I'm also amazed at this discussion.. It's a rumor that... WTH.. did they leave the dive site without everyone on board on not? This is hardly a nuance or good fodder for a rumor. It is a very simple, easily determined piece of factual information.... yes or no?

Also, I was a crew member on a charter boat when we forgot someone and we left the dive site and they ended up dead. I'm quite sure the fatality had nothing to due with the roll call error... so.. leaving a diver on a dive site may NOT have caused the death. In fact, I would assume that if the dive boat did leave the site without the diver, the root cause of that may have been that the diver was way overdue (and thus the possibility is significant that a dive accident may have been the cause for the diver being delayed).

 

[CuzzA]

Jim, according to Sgt. David Carter's (who has participated in this thread) quote in the most recently linked article, it is not a rumor. The link is hard to see though from the new SB format.

I'm not familiar with this dive site, perhaps others can chime in who are, but I thought I read it was a mile from shore. Not sure if the currents rip through there either, but I suspect there's a little more that happened to her than the boat leaving her. Especially considering the USCG was notified a couple hours after they left the site. Of course her surfacing only to not see the boat could have resulted in her panicking and perhaps forgetting her training.

And yes, I agree about the buddy. Does this charter allow solo diving? If she was diving solo, was she experienced enough to be doing that?

At first, the dive seemed to be going well. A Facebook post from Sundiver at 10:06 a.m. shows two photos of Ship Rock and this caption: “Gorgeous day and a full boat!”

A short time later, according to police, the Sundiver Express left the Ship Rock area.

But Silver-Valker wasn’t on the boat.

“They went to a different dive site before realizing that she was not on board,” said Sgt. Dave Carver of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department.

At some point, the Sundiver returned to Ship Rock, where crew members began a search.

Around noon, Carver said, the captain of the 43-foot boat called the Coast Guard to say Silver-Valker was missing.

 

[Leejnd]

I am surprised that the buddy system is not also mentioned in this discussion. If people are diving with buddies, then the buddy should notice that someone is missing.

I haven't mentioned it as my message was pretty long already...but I totally agree with you that the buddy system *should* be another failsafe. Of course that didn't work in the Drifting Dan case, did it? So I see it as just that: a failsafe. Each diver must respond him or herself to their name, and the DM must SEE their face. Buddies are not supposed to respond for their buddy...but they should be able to at least notice if their buddy is missing!

I'm also amazed at this discussion.. It's a rumor that... WTH.. did they leave the dive site without everyone on board on not? This is hardly a nuance or good fodder for a rumor. It is a very simple, easily determined piece of factual information.... yes or no?

I'm just trying to be respectful of the fact that the full story is not yet known. I've heard there are nuances...including possibly what you said below about the potential root cause. But I'm only hearing rumors and will not repeat them. Bottom line, tho...whatever else happened...I agree with your point: either they left the site without everyone on board, or they didn't. It's pretty much binary. I'm just not the person to confirm or refute that...I don't know any more than anyone else.

Also, I was a crew member on a charter boat when we forgot someone and we left the dive site and they ended up dead. I'm quite sure the fatality had nothing to due with the roll call error... so.. leaving a diver on a dive site may NOT have caused the death. In fact, I would assume that if the dive boat did leave the site without the diver, the root cause of that may have been that the diver was way overdue (and thus the possibility is significant that a dive accident may have been the cause for the diver being delayed).

Wow. That's really sad. I'm sorry you experienced that as a crew member. That must have been very traumatic. And I also feel for everyone involved in this situation. My heart goes out to them all. I have no doubt that every single person involved is completely sick over this terrible loss.

I'm not familiar with this dive site, perhaps others can chime in who are, but I thought I read it was a mile from shore. Not sure if the currents rip through there either, but I suspect there's a little more that happened to her than the boat leaving her. Especially considering the USCG was notified a couple hours after they left the site. Of course her surfacing only to not see the boat could have resulted in her panicking and perhaps forgetting her training.

And yes, I agree about the buddy. Does this charter allow solo diving? If she was diving solo, was she experienced enough to be doing that?

I've dived there many times. It is NOT close to shore - a mile sounds about right. There can be STRONG currents - we don't dive it if the kelp is laying over or the current line rips. The boat decides if it's safe for diving that day. Furthermore, there can be boaters blasting through there complete ignoring the dive flags on the dive boats. More than once I've seen powerboaters barreling through the area while everyone on the dive boat is waving and screaming at them. I have not heard anything about this being an issue...I'm just saying I've seen this happen myself.

I can't comment on what the charter allows, but keep in mind, in SoCal we don't dive with DMs or guides. We dive with our buddies. We plan our dives and dive our plans on our own as fully certified divers who don't need or expect babysitters from the boat. Some boats do allow solo divers, don't know if this one does. As for her experience, I never met her but my understanding is that she was VERY experienced, skilled, and unlikely to just 'forget her training'.

 

[Buoy_A]

I suspect there's a little more that happened to her than the boat leaving her.

I agree. People are mentioning Nautilus' and EPIRBs. This dive site (Ship Rock) is not in the middle of nowhere. It's within naked view of the second most populous area on Catlina Island. If a boat left me there, I would calmly leave my rig on the rock and start swimming (with an inflated SMB) to Two Harbors or the nearest land, assuming no current. If there was a current or I didn't have confidence in my swimming skills, I'd just stay put on the rock. People don't die of not being found in these areas. I think anyone who dives around this area would not panic if left by a boat on Ship Rock. Here's a Google link showing the area.