Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[Jax]

Only if you label your tanks wrong.

Or, put the wrong gas in for the label . . and think it's different . . . and then don't check . . .

 

[PfcAJ]

Of course there is but respect remains paramount and it is an ongoing investigation. I know there are family members and those that attempted to save her are aware of this and the condolence thread so Im cannot post detailed excerpts from the police statement.

Not being through this before, maybe ClownFishSydney (aka, Michael) can give more insight into what can be posted but Im not willing to go into all the details that I know because Im concerned about what I can or cannot post online is considered acceptable

Its probably acceptable if the lesson learned saves another diver's life.

Hard to learn from an accident if/when everyone remains tight lipped waiting for someone else to pipe up.

There's no shame in stating the facts.

 

[freewillie]

Nobody has suggested that she must of had DVT, in fact I find it rather condescending of you that you should suggest as much. It has been put forward as a possible lesser know cause of sudden death together with possible other accident scenarios such as buoyancy issues etc. Certainly bodies start to wear out and most of us that are older than 60 take the various aches and pains in stride and don't normally mention them unless there is something out of the ordinary which might have been the case in this instance. In addition to the leg pain she was not a resident of Australia so it is likely that she experienced a long flight in the recent past.

The possibility of her having a DVT has been either suggested or mentioned in 11 previous posts. The real question is if there is a link between her taking ibuprofen for leg pain and if she had another condition besides general run of the mill arthritis or if it was a more insidious cause such as a DVT.

From a practical perspective when two things are true but happen at the same time yet are not connected to each other we would say they are true/true but unrelated. The real trick is trying to distinguish if the events are true but separate or actually have a direct cause and effect relationship.

The classic risk factors for DVT are known as Virchow's triad: 1. stasis. the blood has an opportunity to pool due to inactivity such as travel. It can be as short as 30 minutes in a car/bus but is usually and classically associated with airplane travel and actually has to association "coach class syndrome" since travelers get packed into planes and may not get up for the duration of the flight. 2. hypercoagulable states. the blood has a predisposition to form blood clots. tracydr mentioned this in her post but it comes in two forms - inherited and acquired. one is familial and you are born with the predisposition and the other is a result of another condition or disease that makes you more likely to form blood clots. 3. trauma. something damages the blood vessel causing a blood clot.

As many times as I've suspected (I'm an actual MD in real life) a patient might have blood clot it is usually not the case, even when I've had a high suspicion they might have one like leg pain after a plane flight. Just on odds and probabilities there is a possibility and one may suspect DVT played a role in her demise but I personally would be skeptical and would not put this high on the list. It does make one wonder though since a large saddle emboli is a cause for sudden death. I would expect a lot more complaints and symptoms from the patient and I would expect a fair amount of swelling in the leg as well so in the absence of other signs and/or symptoms I would not put this high on the list.

A far more common cause of sudden deaths is cardiac disease and specifically heart attacks. You don't have to be fat, overweight or look unhealthy to have underlying heart disease and have a heart attack. It can happen to thin active people who otherwise appear healthy. Our current thinking of how patients suffer heart attacks is that they have some atherosclerotic plaque build up. Something causes that plaque to rupture and then the ruptured plaque stimulates a thrombus/blood clot in the artery of the heart and the patient starts having a heart attack. You can have plaque build up that is below the threshold of detection, say as little as 20-30% and if it ruptures you will suffer a heart attack. At very low blockages you can be very active, run, swim, dive and have absolutely no symptoms chest pain, shortness of breath, and even have a normal cardiac stress test with a cardiologist and still have a heart attack. Ever heard of the neighbor who had a stress test then dropped dead of a heart attack later? That is likely why.

DAN statistics for 2008 have cardiac illness as the main non-diving cause of death at 38%. So, nearly 40% of diving fatalities did not involve DCS/DCI or other dive related injuries but medically related conditions such as heart disease.

The only thing I can say is that Quero went diving, something happened, and she was found dead. Any ideas to how or why this happened is pure speculation. I will miss her insights and I will miss her posts. Prayers to her family.

 

[almitywife]

Its probably acceptable if the lesson learned saves another diver's life.

Hard to learn from an accident if/when everyone remains tight lipped waiting for someone else to pipe up.

There's no shame in stating the facts.

OK. My lesson learned? Stick to your f'ing group. There is no "team" in "buddy team" if one of the divers wanders off.

There were four divers in the water on Monday. One chose to move away from the group at various times, eventually seperating herself from the group of two she was with and swam past the third diver

I dont want to seem ghoulish and I also dont think the other divers involved should bear the burden in passing on info so I was hoping to give some info (example she wasnt found floating as reported by the media) because I also dont think there needs to be a veil of silence as well. Its a balance act, Im trying not to hurt the family or other divers but totally understand SB friends want to know what happened.

 

[gypsyjim]

Its probably acceptable if the lesson learned saves another diver's life.

Hard to learn from an accident if/when everyone remains tight lipped waiting for someone else to pipe up.

There's no shame in stating the facts.

Not when you have facts to state.

Loose lips, and rabid speculation based on rumors and poor news gathering aren't going to benefit anyone.

 

[PfcAJ]

Depends on who you ask, Jim.

 

[lv2dive]

This is NOT the thread the family should be reading. That is flat out all there is to it. The condolences thread is a testament to how much respect so many people on this board had for her... I haven't posted there bc I don't exactly have the words but I absolutely concur with the sentiments being expressed over there.

Regardless, THIS THREAD is no place for family unless they have very thick skin and understand exactly what happens here. Unless something is purely 100% medical the loved one may not look great - even if something IS 100% medical, there WILL be speculation that won't be pretty. In this case, probably more controlled than in others - but the goal is not to tarnish the reputation of the deceased, it's for those left to learn. And I can't imagine that she would want anything different.

...Its a balance act, Im trying not to hurt the family or other divers but totally understand SB friends want to know what happened.

 

[clownfishsydney]

I will share one thing now about the speculation she may have had DVT. Her sore leg probably came about because on the Thursday and Friday before the fatal dive she did three shore dives. All were at locations where there was some walking from the car to the water and back again. In each case, the walk back is up a steep hill, although each of them was not that far (at least for me). For a 62 year old, not used to shore diving nor the weight needed for a drysuit dive, I suspect this is the cause of the sore leg.

 

[Jax]

A far more common cause of sudden deaths is cardiac disease and specifically heart attacks. You don't have to be fat, overweight or look unhealthy to have underlying heart disease and have a heart attack. It can happen to thin active people who otherwise appear healthy. Our current thinking of how patients suffer heart attacks is that they have some atherosclerotic plaque build up. Something causes that plaque to rupture and then the ruptured plaque stimulates a thrombus/blood clot in the artery of the heart and the patient starts having a heart attack. You can have plaque build up that is below the threshold of detection, say as little as 20-30% and if it ruptures you will suffer a heart attack. At very low blockages you can be very active, run, swim, dive and have absolutely no symptoms chest pain, shortness of breath, and even have a normal cardiac stress test with a cardiologist and still have a heart attack. Ever heard of the neighbor who had a stress test then dropped dead of a heart attack later? That is likely why.

I would like to highlight this paragraph. Some of you may remember that our Kevin Carlisle (he's a youngster!) had an out-of-nowhere heart-attack back in March of this year. FreeWillie's comments are at least a reminder to get yourself checked out annually. This is a sport, and that needs you to have some reasonable fitness to deal well with it.

 

[almitywife]

I have no comment on a possible sore leg or not. I read or heard nothing spoken about this.