Santi 400g or DUI 450 Flex?

[Trace Malinowski]

In my experience, the TLS-350 ("The Leaky Suit" 350) should have a CF designation for "Constantly Floods."

 

[LiteHedded]

trace I'm interested in your tls experience. do you have just one? do you remember about when you bought it?

 

[HenrikBP]

One very nice lady did bring us home made brownies but I managed to steal most of them.....

Best,
Guy Shockey
GUE Instructor

Is that a GUE instructor thing ...? Bob Sherwood does it too

My Santi is pretty stiff ... although to be fair the folks I know who use them tell me they loosen up after you've worn them a while. I also had to add six lbs of lead over what I normally wear with my Weezle Extreme.

Question: I've read various undie reviews, and seen mention of the difference in weight requirements. I dive 4th Element Arctic undies, which have a reputation for being very floaty. But ... isn't the extra lift the end result of better heat retention?

To my thinking (slippery slope, I know ...), what keeps you warm is the amount of trapped air within the suit. The more loft in the undies the warmer they'll be, which then in turn will require more lead. I'm wondering if the suit material in and of itself adds much to the warmth - I wouldn't think so.

Henrik

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Is that a GUE instructor thing ...? Bob Sherwood does it too

Question: I've read various undie reviews, and seen mention of the difference in weight requirements. I dive 4th Element Arctic undies, which have a reputation for being very floaty. But ... isn't the extra lift the end result of better heat retention?

To my thinking (slippery slope, I know ...), what keeps you warm is the amount of trapped air within the suit. The more loft in the undies the warmer they'll be, which then in turn will require more lead. I'm wondering if the suit material in and of itself adds much to the warmth - I wouldn't think so.

Henrik

Yes, loft = heat retention ... but that works both ways. When you need less heat retention, having a suit that's more compressible gives you a better ability to use less loft ... and thus less weight. The difference between any of the 400G thinsulate undergarments and the Weezle is how compressible it is. When I travel, the Weezle fits into a tiny little stuff sack ... whereas the Santi takes up about four times as much space in my luggage.

My dives are rarely over 1.5 hours ... because in <50 degree water even with the best undergarments you're still gonna start running out of thermal units by then (feet, hands, face) ... so there's not really an apples-apples comparison with what the cave guys are doing, or what best suits their needs. So the extra warmth of the Santi undergarment wasn't worth the trade-off of carrying all that extra weight. And when I need more thermal protection, I'd rather carry argon than lead ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LiteHedded]

doesn't the weezle need more loft than thinsulate to get that insulation though? I've never dived one though just what I've heard

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

doesn't the weezle need more loft than thinsulate to get that insulation though? I've never dived one though just what I've heard

I dive mine pretty compressed ... but then, I'm wearing lots of bioprene under it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[LiteHedded]

got ya. i've seen them around but dont know anyone who dives them so i dunno

 

[limeyx]

I am lucky enough to be a crash test dummy for the up and coming heated suit, mostly cause they know i yap on threads like this, and other than being friends with Susan and Dick Long on Facebook, that is the extent of my association, i do not work for them or anything like that if that is what you are implying. I pay $$$$$ for my drysuits and undergarments, just like everyone else.

I wasn't implying anything, I was asking a simple question, which is answered.

 

[rjack321]

doesn't the weezle need more loft than thinsulate to get that insulation though? I've never dived one though just what I've heard

My weezle requires massive amounts of gas (and lead). I've used DUI 400gm thinsulate in the past and wasn't warm enough. Adding more gas to the 400gm didn't make it any warmer because it was already maximally lofted. The weezle has alot more loft, whether or not you utilize it is up to the user. The Extreme+ is the warmest undergarment I've found/used.

 

[limeyx]

Hi Nick,

I was also curious about your question that Laura answered above and thought I would add one part. Since your question came after her mention about being in the water a long time recently,
Best,
Guy Shockey
GUE Instructor

Hi Guy, my question was unrelated to that. From postings I have read from Laura, she seems to be testing out certain pre-production gear for DUI, and I was wondering if that made her an "interested party" in recommending DUI equipment, which Laura clarified is not the case.

My question was unrelated to her generous help that I know she's been providing to your classes.