EFX
Contributor
Don't you mean last diver to the bar loses. What's this 30 stuff?L
Last diver to 30 bar wins!
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Don't you mean last diver to the bar loses. What's this 30 stuff?L
Last diver to 30 bar wins!
What is wrong with using the SurfGF as a guide? You seem to be saying they should instead stick to the "basic idea of a shallow pause" of unspecified length on all dives. And then in the next point...1. the original poster should not be putting much numerical importance in their precise "Surface GF" number on a dive with no explicit deco stops, and should just stick to the basic idea of a shallow pause period in their ascent for safety, and/or a very slow ascent rate while surfacing.
you contradict the previous one, telling divers that, well, I honestly don't know what you are telling them.2. nor should the original poster be confident that any completely arbitrary prescription of "X minutes at X metres/feet" during rec dives is proven to be specifically ideal for DCS avoidance
So the standard safety stop is "an industry crowd control technique to train customers," even though it has been recommended by nearly all agencies for decades following the publication of a study done before that time. Instead, you recommend two 3-minute stops, one at 20 feet and one at 10 feet. I asked for the research behind that, and you did not give it.The "3 mins @ 5 metres/15 feet" thing is mostly an industry crowd control technique to train customers. Any number of minutes at any shallow depth is probably helpful, though not required for everyone, nor completely protective for those already prone to DCS that day.
Please read Info - History of the Safety Stop and see if you still think the Safety Stop is an industry crowd control technique. Unfortunately the Rubicon links in that article are no longer valid, but I have downloaded pdfs if you want them.The "3 mins @ 5 metres/15 feet" thing is mostly an industry crowd control technique to train customers. Any number of minutes at any shallow depth is probably helpful, though not required for everyone, nor completely protective for those already prone to DCS that day.
Did some dives yesterday with the Clear now active and can confirm that on dives within the NDL as soon as I reached 20ft it started counting up, hence can be used to time your safety stops. As I have my last stop set to 20ft, I am not sure if the last stop was set to 10ft that it will not start counting unless you are at 10ft.
What kind of question is that?Frankly, if you want to get out of the water three minutes faster then why did you bother spending the other 57 minutes (or whatever) in the water at all? This is the sort of lazy corner cutting that gets people in trouble.
30 bars?! Wuss!L
Last diver to 30 bar wins!
Now that is sucking down your gas30 bars?! Wuss!
What is wrong with using the SurfGF as a guide? You seem to be saying they should instead stick to the "basic idea of a shallow pause" of unspecified length on all dives. And then in the next point...
you contradict the previous one, telling divers that, well, I honestly don't know what you are telling them.
So the standard safety stop is "an industry crowd control technique to train customers," even though it has been recommended by nearly all agencies for decades following the publication of a study done before that time. Instead, you recommend two 3-minute stops, one at 20 feet and one at 10 feet. I asked for the research behind that, and you did not give it.
I have read your posts repeatedly, and I cannot figure out what you are actually saying. I must be losing my reading ability in my old age. It almost seems like you are saying nothing works for certain, so just wing it. Do a pause of unspecified length in shallow water, head for the surface, and hope for the best.
Although it doesn't work in real-time, the ODIVE personal dopplar is a pretty cool piece of tech. Couldn't help name dropping it after reading your comment about personalized safety profiles.Yes, unfortunately actual personalized decompression is very much still a black art, which is clearly evident in so many anecdotal stories of "but I did my PADI safety stops and still got bent"
It is vague, it is uncertain, and this is unsatisfying. I agree with you!
So for "NDL" diving sure, ascend at 3 metres/10 feet per minute or less above half your max depth, and take some extra time to regroup, tidy up, and communicate somewhere between 6 and 3 metres.
Go ahead and do the PADI stop if that's what your team agreed to, because there are several safety features of doing so--notably crowd control and surface hazards. But it is probably no more important for DCS than simply ascending and surfacing slowly.
That's as clear as it gets I think.
To properly science this, we would need something directly measurable for personalized decompression, such as a high quality consumer submersible doppler, deployed into the wild and gathering realtime data for thousands of people's dives. Then gather all that in-water data together and look to see if there is something, anything in there that reliably and predictably links a measurable value to DCS occurrences. Someone please invest $50 million to make it happen