Safety standards - need your opinion

[Compressor]

Hi all,

I’m a long time (and grateful) reader and first time poster to this forum - sorry if I’m in the wrong subforum or don’t follow the posting guidelines properly. I am seeking your advice after a dive I did a couple of days ago, which - at least to me - appeared to have lacked basic safety standards. I want to write my concerns to the dive op (and possibly report it to PADI), but before that, I’m seeking your opinion on whether I may be overreacting to some aspects, or if you agree that safety was lacking, and what your advice would be for me to do (aside from getting smarter and learning how to sit a dive that doesn’t seem properly planned, which I learned now ;-).

Also - apologize if there is any typo or mistake, English is not my primary language.

First maybe a couple of words about me. I’m a typical average diver, with about 150 dives in the last 3 years, mostly in warm water but also in my dear local lake, I am by no standard a very good diver, but my goal is to have one day the trim, propulsion and buoyancy control of a tec diver although I’ll remain on the rec side forever. I do a lot of diving mistakes (and below is one) so at least I learn a lot

I am currently on vacation and I went diving with a small dive op, we were 3 divers and a guide, who is also a PADI instructor. Here is a summary of the things that I believe were not well executed.

• The boat departed to the dive site, at which point nobody had yet cared to check if I was even certified to dive.. So I figured well they may do that at a later point, but no, so before arriving at the dive site I asked the guide if maybe he’d want to check my c card, to which he said, oh sure, if you have them, that’d actually be great… Not sure it would have been checked had I not mentioned anything

• No medical questionnaire was filled. I am allergic to aspirin so I know I should mention it, but nobody would have asked or checked otherwise. I believe aspirin is a quite commonly used medicine in dive accident, right? I feel this is a simple thing to ask beforehand to avoid critical situations

• No boat safety briefing (im not sure there was even oxygen on the boat), no dive briefing (no max depth, bottom time, dive profile, no review of signals, no emergency protocols, I don’t know, to recall divers for example etc) - the only « brief » was « we will dive 60 minutes » and a (so condescending it was actually funny, but that is another story) buddy check with the guide

• There was quite some surface current and waves, also bottom current, overall not the easiest dive, but apart from that quite uneventful, I did a very conservative profile, because I quickly realized that if something was going south, I was pretty much on my own

• The boat had no dive flag, and we were on a submerged coral bommie in the open sea, where some boat traffic could take place, and the dive boat left the dive site to go further away in a more sheltered area while we were diving- this may be ok, I just feel that if something happens and there in an emergency at the surface, you want to have the boat as close as possible - also given the swell I’m not sure the boat could have seen my tiny SMB in a distance - he just told us when we jumped, I’ll pick you up in an hour

• The guide started to dive first with the current, and I thought it would be a drift dive, but no, at half time decided to swim back to our entry point, against the current (which we obviously never managed to do)

• So the boat arrived (after some worrying long minutes of not being in sight), and the guide swam like there was no tomorrow back to the boat, got in, removed his gear and started helping with maneuvering the boat, while the poor three of us were left hanging on to a rope, a good distance from the boat. They wanted to drag us, I objected (the line was already sharp into my hands just with the current and waves), well they dragged us anyways, and I believe my screams made them stop (my palms still hurt a bit, I’ll be fine. Here my concern would be that, if anyone had had an issue at that time, the guide is (or should be) the more able to assist in an emergency, so should have been the last to exit the water. But here, he would have had to gear up again, potentially losing sight of a distressed diver, and losing precious minutes. Also - dragging us on a rope may not have been the best idea, I had to let the rope go (for the sake of my poor hands) and thankfully the captain heard me yelling so he stopped the boat again. Then argued that it was dangerous to pick us up here due to the waves (maybe he shouldn’t have dropped us here in the first place?) but for him the choice seemed to be: have your hands cut and be picked up, or swim back to shore on your own..

• After pulling myself with the rope back to the boat, the advice I was given was: take off your fins first. So, generally, I don’t take off my fins first, because on one of my first dives, I did this, and I fell back in the water, and I realize how useless my feet were to propulse me anywhere (as announced, I make lots of diving mistakes. Now I’d take off weight and BC and keep my fins until I’m safety somewhere on the boat. So I did not listen to the advice. I just feel that the advice was very off, especially with the sea conditions.

• The rental BCDs had only one dump valve, on the deflator hose, on the left shoulder. No right shoulder or bottom valve. I actually don’t know if that’s standard, acceptable or not.

Now I can imagine you will be thinking why did she even do this dive and that I’m stupid for having done so, and I can only agree with you. I have no good excuse or reason for having done that dive and am happy im safely back on land. In hindsight I’ve learned a lot during this dive, and realized that I was trusting an op I did not know and pretty much risked a lot for lack of being more assertive. For the difficult it is to admit, I know I tend to go on trust-me dives, and I’m trying to un-learn that bad habit. I won’t follow someone in a cave or go deeper than planned, but I tend to at least trust the dive site choice and plan - well, that was a good lesson, I will become much more attentive from now on.

In spite of an incident-free dive, I just can’t help but feel worried for the students learning with that instructor.

This long post to come up to these questions for you:

• Are the facts above also something that would be of concern to you too? Do you agree with my analyses of why this could be a safety concern or not, and if not why? What are the most concerning aspects to you, so that I know specifically what to look out for in future trips?
• What should I do next? Writing the op? Padi? Anything else?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Not Yet a Fish

Nice reports on this operation.
I will just add that your English is excellent. Also Welcome to ScubaBoard.
Also its a good idea to research the operator before booking a trip with them. I'm sure you know that already.

Also I think many divers would take their own gear when travelling as you never know what you will get.

 

[Scared Silly]

Gruetzi,

Welcome to the board.

• The boat departed to the dive site, at which point nobody had yet cared to check if I was even certified to dive..

Most do check, seems sloppy.

• No medical questionnaire was filled. I am allergic to aspirin so I know I should mention it, but nobody would have asked or checked otherwise. I believe aspirin is a quite commonly used medicine in dive accident, right? I feel this is a simple thing to ask beforehand to avoid critical situations

Not an issue, some operations do ask some do not. Live-a-boards seem to ask.

• No boat safety briefing (im not sure there was even oxygen on the boat), no dive briefing (no max depth, bottom time, dive profile, no review of signals, no emergency protocols, I don’t know, to recall divers for example etc) - the only « brief » was « we will dive 60 minutes » and a (so condescending it was actually funny, but that is another story) buddy check with the guide

That should have been done. Poor practice by the dive op.

• There was quite some surface current and waves, also bottom current, overall not the easiest dive, but apart from that quite uneventful, I did a very conservative profile, because I quickly realized that if something was going south, I was pretty much on my own

CYA - cover your arse. Good thinking on your part.

• The boat had no dive flag, and we were on a submerged coral bommie in the open sea, where some boat traffic could take place, and the dive boat left the dive site to go further away in a more sheltered area while we were diving- this may be ok, I just feel that if something happens and there in an emergency at the surface, you want to have the boat as close as possible - also given the swell I’m not sure the boat could have seen my tiny SMB in a distance - he just told us when we jumped, I’ll pick you up in an hour

Typically the boat should remain in the general area at all times. Last year I came up from a dive and the boat driver was a bit further away than usual. I yelled and he was there pronto. He was further away because of a manta on the surface. We went back over and while I went back in the he was watching for the manta, me, and the other divers. But was never far away.

• The guide started to dive first with the current, and I thought it would be a drift dive, but no, at half time decided to swim back to our entry point, against the current (which we obviously never managed to do)

The guide was dumb. If returning to the boat the dive should be into the current. Currents may change but at least hedge your bets by diving into the current to start.

• So the boat arrived (after some worrying long minutes of not being in sight), and the guide swam like there was no tomorrow back to the boat, got in, removed his gear and started helping with maneuvering the boat, while the poor three of us were left hanging on to a rope, a good distance from the boat. They wanted to drag us, I objected (the line was already sharp into my hands just with the current and waves), well they dragged us anyways, and I believe my screams made them stop (my palms still hurt a bit, I’ll be fine.

I have been picked up in some really bouncy seas with currents. I have never once been dragged. That is just stupid to me. That said, I have been in currents where there is a tag line in the water that one grabs and uses the pulled themselves back to the boat.

• After pulling myself with the rope back to the boat, the advice I was given was: take off your fins first. So, generally, I don’t take off my fins first, because on one of my first dives, I did this, and I fell back in the water, and I realize how useless my feet were to propulse me anywhere (as announced, I make lots of diving mistakes. Now I’d take off weight and BC and keep my fins until I’m safety somewhere on the boat. So I did not listen to the advice. I just feel that the advice was very off, especially with the sea conditions.

Take your fins off so to get up the ladder BUT KEEP THEM with you until in the boat. The same with your mask keep it on your face until in the boat. I often keep my reg in my mouth until in the boat. To keep you fins with you just put them around your wrist, that keeps you hand free.

• The rental BCDs had only one dump valve, on the deflator hose, on the left shoulder. No right shoulder or bottom valve. I actually don’t know if that’s standard, acceptable or not.

Surprised there was not an OPV on the bottom. But rental gear is often cheap.

This long post to come up to these questions for you:

• Are the facts above also something that would be of concern to you too? Do you agree with my analyses of why this could be a safety concern or not, and if not why? What are the most concerning aspects to you, so that I know specifically what to look out for in future trips?
• What should I do next? Writing the op? Padi? Anything else?

I probably would not dive with them again. I would not bother writing to PADI as they will not do anything. If anything I would find where they might be listed on social media and write a short but factual account of the day.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Bitte

 

[JamesBon92007]

To reiterate what others have said...

All of my vacation diving has been in Hawai'i, Mexico, and Costa Rica. So far all of the dive ops have had me fill out a questionnaire (more recently it's been online), had me write down my C-card number or looked at my card, had a diver's flag on the boat, and had oxygen on the boat. I don't take my fins off until I have a firm grasp on the ladder. Normally, when diving from a boat, you start your dive against the current and end your dive going with the current. This may vary according to unusual conditions.

I had one dive op insist that I remove my weight belt before going up the ladder and in the couple of seconds it took to remove it and turn to hand it to them I had drifted away from the boat and they had to toss me a line. It did not seem possible to remove the belt without letting go of the ladder without risking losing some or all of their weights. This has encouraged me to put weight pockets on my BC. I'm perfectly capable of climbing up the ladder wearing all my gear so I don't see the point.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have always had a dive operator ask about my card, but never on the boat itself. The boat crew has always assumed that was taken are of before I got there. Did you have any interaction, say when you paid for the dive, that included your card?

 

[TMHeimer]

Dogbowl, Re Quebec permit-- Called Cert. of Qualification in Rec. Scuba Diving issued by "FQAS" (Quebec Govt.).
Must be renewed every 3 years along with dive log proof of 10 dives in that period. No mention anywhere about what you must do to get the permit, or how much it costs. Maybe others from PQ know.

JamesBon92007-- Removing belt while still in water would be next to impossible for me with my suspendered pouch belt. As well, I need more weight that just my integrated weight. Wonder how that boat would deal with me?