Rules of the Road

[mmerriman]

Please note - this is published by the USCG on their nav rules FAQ page:

5. Who has the "right of way" on the water? The Navigation Rules convey a right-of-way only in one particular circumstance: to power-driven vessels proceeding downbound with a following current in narrow channels or fairways of the Great Lakes , Western Rivers, or other waters specified by regulation (Inland Rule 9(a)(ii)). Otherwise, power-driven vessels are to keep out of the way (Rule 18) and either give-way (Rule 16) or stand-on (Rule 17) to vessels not under command or restricted in their ability to maneuver, sailing vessels or vessels engaged in fishing, and, similarly vessels should avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft (Rule 18(d)), navigating a narrow channel (Rule 9) or traffic separation scheme (Rule 10). The Rules do not grant privileges they impose responsibilities and require precaution under all conditions and circumstances; no Rule exonerates any vessel from the consequences of neglect (Rule 2). Neglect, among other things, could be not maintaining a proper look-out (Rule 5), use of improper speed (Rule 6), not taking the appropriate actions to determine and avoid collision (Rule 7 & 8) or completely ignoring your responsibilities under the Rules.

Note, a power driven vessel means any vessel propelled by machinery; regardless of the machinery being used or not.

 

[MarinersSchool]

You forgot just one rule in your post... Rule 13 – Overtaking which states:

1. Any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.
   
2. A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her side lights.
   
3. When a vessel has any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.
   
4. Any alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel or relieve her of the duty to keep clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

So... If a sailboat is overtaking a power driven vessel the sailboat is the give way vessel and the power driven vessel is the stand on vessel or has the "right of way".

This rule recognizes that an overtaking vessel should have less problems in keeping clear and avoiding collision than the vessel that is being overtaken, even when the overtaken vessel agrees by sound signal or by radio to allow the maneuver.

 

[nolatom]

Statement:

"Note, a power driven vessel means any vessel propelled by machinery; regardless of the machinery being used or not."

Unquote

I just don't get this statement/argument. The rules don't say this. When they do mention propulsion, it's with the proviso, "when in use". We're arguing over what "use" means. No one's cited a regulation or court case defining this. I thought, and still do, that "use" means "propelling". Neutral ain't propelling if you haven't been in gear all day (and yes, I agree that while you shift to neutral in the middle of maneuvering, you remain under power). Looking at exhaust or engine heat ain't in the rules, and ain't practical for navigation decisions. Day shapes and steaming lights are. And whether someone believes you or not later on when you say (truthfully) that the engine, while on, was never in gear, that's a question of credibility, and so be it. you're "Under power" when you're required to show the light or the cone, and vice-versa. When you're not so required, you ain't under power, in my opinion, which latter I haven't seen reason to change, based on what I've read here and elsewhere .

I go back to what I mentioned earlier: Is a steam-powered (auxiliary) sailing vessel "under power" when she has steam up, but steam engine, or steam turbine, not engaged nor receiving any steam pressure? Anyone want to say "yes" here? I sure don't. For me, an engine in neutral, never engaged, is the same condition- it ain't "power" til you use it to turn the shaft, whether that's done by a steam nozzle or by a clutch lever.

 

[mmerriman]

"I just don't get this statement/argument."

Get over it. The USCG has issued this interpretation - not me. Those of us that want to make a conservative interpretation of the rules will and likely never run afoul of the rules. Those that want to push their limits will and hope that the LEO's that witness anything are liberal in their interpretation.

 

[nolatom]

What's "this interpretation"? I don't see anything in your last post that addresses the in gear/never been in gear question which your "Note" therein purports to resolve, and which everyone seems so certain about on both sides.

And the idea that I have to put on a steaming light or day shape because I am running an engine in neutral to charge batteries (is that what you're saying?) is nonsensical. My boat is being propelled by sails alone; I'm a sailing vessel, and I'm sailing.

I don't 'get over' stuff I think is wrong, Cap.

 

[mmerriman]

Note, a power driven vessel means any vessel propelled by machinery; regardless of the machinery being used or not.

if the engine is on and engaged its obvious you're a power driven vessel. If the engine is in and in neutral, the machinery "isn't being used" but available to be used and the interpration of the rule by the USCG is that you're a power driven vessel.

 

[mmerriman]

Published in the 2000 Reed's Nautical Companion -

Rule 3 There are four of these definitions of particular importance to skippers of small craft. The Rules are written in terms of "vessels," and this means all watercraft regardless of size or description - a rowboat or dinghy, a personal watercraft (PWC), a recreational craft or fishing boat, a cruise ship, freighter, or tanker - these are all "vessels" as far as the Navigation Rules are concerned. Of course, common sense and good judgement must be applied in situations such as right of way, but no small boat is excused in any manner from compliance with the Rules.

A "sailing vessel" has that status only if it is not using mechanical propulsion. Even if the sails are up and being used, if the engines are running it is a "power-driven" vessel and does not have the special privileged status of a sailboat.
A sport-fishing boat with trolling lines out is not considered a "vessel engaged in fishing" with a special status and privileges. Such lines are not considered a restriction in her ability to maneuver.

Note: carefully the definition of "underway." Remember that even when you are "just drifting" you are still underway as regards the Navigation Rules; a vessel that is drifting is sometimes informally described as "underway with no way on." This is particularly relevant in foggy situations or other conditions of restricted visibility.

 

[nolatom]

To quote Reed's then:

"A 'sailing vessel' has that status only if it is not using mechanical propulsion".

Just running the engine itself, with no propulsion (except by the sails), can't affect this, she's still a sailboat, in my view. Any other "interpretation" just doesn't comport with Rule 3.

You've said above that "even if sails are up and being used, if the engines are running, it is a "power-driven" vessel and doesn't have the privileged status of a sailboat"

But the quote from the USCG NavRules FAQ page, says only:

"Note, a power driven vessel means any vessel propelled by machinery; regardless of the machinery being used or not."

This quote stands alone there, not related to any sailboat question. I think you're reading too much into it. I agree a power driven vessel is one propelled by machinery; and even if out of gear, if she's "underway", she's still classed as a powerboat. But *not* when she is also something else, namely, a *sailboat* propelled solely by sails and *not* propelled by machinery which by the way happens to be running but not engaged and hence not serving as propulsion.

Or, let's look at it another way. A powerboat, drifting with engine off but operational and can be started up and used, remains a powerboat (and not, say, a rowboat or a dumb barge with windows) for rules purposes, right?. But a sailboat, while propelled by sails, with engine off but operational, *doesn't* become a powerboat, right? That to me is the difference

I believe I'm right in this, and I teach students this too (among other things), in an auxiliary sailboat. So to be sure, yesterday while I was at an event with our local Captain of the Port/Sector Commander, and his Deputy/Alternate COTP, I took advantage of our meeting to ask them:

"I'm a sailboat, being propelled solely by sail. I start up my engine, it's in neutral, I may use it soon, or I may never. Later I do decide to use it, and put it into gear. When do I become a powerboat for purposes of the NavRules?"

Answer from both: "When you put it into gear, and not before".


Having said all this, this is a really good and informative Rules forum and thanks to those who are doing all the work, I just don't agree on this particular point.

 

[CaptCrip]

To quote Reed's then:

"A 'sailing vessel' has that status only if it is not using mechanical propulsion".

Just running the engine itself, with no propulsion (except by the sails), can't affect this, she's still a sailboat, in my view. Any other "interpretation" just doesn't comport with Rule 3.

You've said above that "even if sails are up and being used, if the engines are running, it is a "power-driven" vessel and doesn't have the privileged status of a sailboat"

But the quote from the USCG NavRules FAQ page, says only:

"Note, a power driven vessel means any vessel propelled by machinery; regardless of the machinery being used or not."

This quote stands alone there, not related to any sailboat question. I think you're reading too much into it. I agree a power driven vessel is one propelled by machinery; and even if out of gear, if she's "underway", she's still classed as a powerboat. But *not* when she is also something else, namely, a *sailboat* propelled solely by sails and *not* propelled by machinery which by the way happens to be running but not engaged and hence not serving as propulsion.

Or, let's look at it another way. A powerboat, drifting with engine off but operational and can be started up and used, remains a powerboat (and not, say, a rowboat or a dumb barge with windows) for rules purposes, right?. But a sailboat, while propelled by sails, with engine off but operational, *doesn't* become a powerboat, right? That to me is the difference

I believe I'm right in this, and I teach students this too (among other things), in an auxiliary sailboat. So to be sure, yesterday while I was at an event with our local Captain of the Port/Sector Commander, and his Deputy/Alternate COTP, I took advantage of our meeting to ask them:

"I'm a sailboat, being propelled solely by sail. I start up my engine, it's in neutral, I may use it soon, or I may never. Later I do decide to use it, and put it into gear. When do I become a powerboat for purposes of the NavRules?"

Answer from both: "When you put it into gear, and not before".


Having said all this, this is a really good and informative Rules forum and thanks to those who are doing all the work, I just don't agree on this particular point.

Tom I am in agreement with you, a sailing vessel is still a sailing vessel until the propelling machinery is put into use, as defined by the rules. Although you are sailing and have propulsion available you are considered a sailing vessel.

 

[CaptCrip]

I run a school that is Coast Guard approved which has trained more than 25,000 students wishing to earn their Captain's License. This training also includes teaching the Coast Guard and many State Police organizations and first responders with responsibilities on the waterways of the United States. I am recognized as an expert witness in the eyes of the court system and have been involved as an expert witness in many actual court cases. So my explanation of the rule is more than just an interpretation... It is based on a solid understanding of maritime law and how it pertains to the Rules of the Road...

So, no I do not personally have a problem with people who disagree with me. What I do have a problem with though... Is people who are not knowledgeable or try pose as an expert in an area where they are not.

So, at the end of the day you do what you think is right... However, if you are unfortunate and find yourself in a court of law trying to explain that although your engines were running "propelling machinery" they were not being used... When you are paying the fine remember that you were warned...

Good luck... I suspect that you are going to need it...

Captain Bob,

You are a teacher, and recognized as an expert witness in the eyes of the court system.

I also am recognized as an expert witness in the eyes of the court system, and teach thru the hawspipe. I assume I have more credentials in my portfolio of documents than yourself.



**Short simple explanation**

International & Inland Rule 3c: The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used;

This is what is written in the rules, NOT, what has been interpreted by a lower officer in the FAQ section of the USCG website.

Granted, if you were in a close quarters situation which put you into extremis, you have already broken rules that would never been broken by a prudent mariner, and you are required to use propelling machinery to avoid extremis.


You might want to try to understand what BB1 & nolatom are trying to convey to you.


(I would enjoy a challenge in the court system on the opposing team)