Role of a Dive Master

[Leejnd]

Tim, I completely disagree with how you have interpreted this discussion. In fact, I can't help but wonder if you even read some of the posts - especially the ones that explain that a DM's role can vary depending on the type of boat, the area, the policies of the dive op, etc.

In fact, I feel that you are doing DMs, and the entire dive industry, a big disservice in your interpretation. I will attempt to explain (and I do hope you read it - hey, I read your lengthy posts! )

This has been very enlightening. It seems one problem is that there is no real standard for what a DM does or should do. The responses here have ranged greatly from the all inclusive to just the bare minimum and the diver takes the rest. The fact that the divers also don't agree on what they would like for the DM to do just exacerbates the problem.

I disagree that there IS a problem. How does the fact that the DM role differs widely depending on the situation mean that there is a problem? The simple reality is, there are different types of boats, different types of ops, and areas in which the needs are simply different. An example: resort areas in the tropics get lots of vacation divers - people who got certified years ago and only dive once a year (if that) when they go on vacation. These types of divers generally don't have their own equipment, are not skilled in navigation, and truly need to be babysat. Areas such as SoCal, on the other hand, are filled with frequent divers who LIVE here, dive regularly, have their own gear, are generally skilled and competent, and have no desire to be led by the nose. Completely different needs for the DMs - so their role on the two different boats MUST be different.

Where's the problem?

Divers are taught in cert courses that they are expected to be self-sufficient. That self-sufficiency includes learning what to expect at the places they will go diving. To board a dive boat ANYWHERE with an assumption of what the DMs will do, without having any prior knowledge of what the general standards are in THAT place, on THAT type of boat, is simply foolish.

Unfortunately, the loser here is the diver who makes some assumption (based on previous experience, anecdotal reports of other divers, etc.) regarding the assistance he or she will receive. Also very unfortunate is that the list of possible outcomes relative to that loss includes severe penalties such as disability and death.

Again, any diver who makes such assumptions without educating himself in advance is behaving foolishly. That is NOT being a self-sufficient diver. So yes, I would agree that any diver who does that is a loser. But that is not a "problem" in the industry, or with DMs, or DM standards. It's a problem with the diver who didn't bother to learn something about the place he is going to do an activity that can, infact, result in disability or death.

We see this out here in SoCal - vacation divers who come here and expect to go on our boats and be treated like they are on a cattle boat in Cozumel. They didn't bother to learn anything about our unique environment - cold water, currents, kelp - and they are stunned to learn that they will not be babysat and catered to like they were when they went on that dive off a cruise ship last year.

Who's fault is that? The DM's? The industry's for not having "standards"? No, it's the diver's - for not doing his homework.

However, I wouldn't think it would hurt to have some reasonable guidelines for what a DM does for his divers and what you both can and should expect on a dive. That would include not only the help you would or could receive but also what their expectations of you as a certified diver will be. The vague nature of it all is what concerns me. Nobody can or will define the roles.

I strongly disagree. There ARE reasonable standards - but they vary based on the situation. This variance is necessary. The "vague nature" you speak of is simply unavoidable due to the varied nature of diving. Can you imagine the number of accidents and deaths that would occur if cattle-boats of vacation divers in Cozumel were run the way our boats out here are? And...can you imagine the number of fistfights that would occur if our boats tried to operate the way the cattle boats in Cozumel do?

The bottom line is that diving is a very inclusive sport because it has so many different permutations. There are once-a-year rec divers and hard core daily tech divers. These divers obviously need vastly different things from anyone trying to aid them on a dive. So, some of this should work itself out if the divers pick dives that are remotely appropriate to their skill level. But maybe the dive operators and DM's still need to do a better job of trying to really figure out how experienced and/or comfortable the divers are well before the dives begin. I do think it would be very frustrating for every dive to be dumbed down to the level of the least experienced diver on the boat, so why not try to do a better job matching the experience levels to the dives and operators?

This DOES take place - where it needs to. I've been on resort boats where the DMs were the masters and commanders, read every logbook, matched up instabuddies based on experience and skill, and basically took total charge. If a DM out here in SoCal tried to do that, he'd probably get a black eye.

Maybe this is simple economics at work. The money is really not there so you take all comers, try not to piss anyone off and try not to kill anyone. If something does happen, you point at the diver and say it was his fault - he was certified after all. You have kept everything very vague which makes it harder to prove who is really at fault so that protects the dive operator and his staff.

Again, I disagree. DMs don't operate they way they do because of the money factor - they do it because it's what's called for based in the type of situation, type of boat, etc. Are you starting to see a theme here? And truth be told, if something goes wrong it usually IS the *fault* (if you really want to use that word) of the diver. That's what you become certified for - so you can learn to be self-sufficient. YOU and ONLY you are responsible for your gear, your safety, your dive. It is patently unfair, not to mention foolish, to expect a DM to be responsible for you. If you feel that way, you really shouldn't be diving.

In aviation, no matter what happens on a flight, the end result of the investigation will have "pilot error" as a component. If something fails, you should have anticipated that and been able to deal with it - if you didn't or couldn't that was your fault. If the weather suddenly got overwhelming, you should have been able to predict that - even when the meteorologists couldn't and it was your fault. They will often try to share the blame among manufacturers but, in the end, it was the pilot's fault. Knowing that, I always try to keep in mind that there really is no one to help me when I'm in the air. That insures that I am very thorough on my preflights, that I spend anything necessary on maintenance, that I keep my training up and that I am very forceful with air traffic control when I believe their agenda is at odds with my safety. I feel the same way with diving, but I think there are many out there that have the expectation that "someone" will help them if anything goes wrong, so they don't really have to worry about it.

Now THIS I wholeheartedly agree with! And the part I highlighted in red is, as far as I'm concerned, the REAL problem in diving. But that's a problem with the divers, not the DMs, not the dive ops, not the boat, not the industry. Divers are taught in cert courses that they, and only they, are responsible for their safety - and NOT to expect DMs or others to take care of them. If they do, they are not following their training, are they?

It seems the right thing to do might be to be very explicit about the fact that the responsibility lies with you the diver and that you cannot really count on any help from the DM. Sure, they will try to help if they can, but it is not a guarantee and if you aren't comfortable taking the risk of getting lost in low vis or getting swept away in strong current or whatever other peril lurks on a particular dive, then you really shouldn't go.

And now you're REALLY making sense! This is the most accurate, spot-on paragraph of your entire post. But where is this "explicitness" expressed? In training. Or at least, it should be. Divers should come out of their cert courses knowing this. They shouldn't have to be reminded.

On the dive boats I've been on, there certainly hasn't been any emphasis placed on insuring that your skills and confidence level are up to the dive. I know you can hire a private DM as a guide at most places, but I would be willing to be that there is some more money to be made right here by being a little more proactive. A VERY thorough briefing of the upcoming dive and the associated challenges followed by an explicit offer of additional paid support would probably have a two-fold effect. First, it would increase the safety for those divers who come to realize they may be in over their heads and take advantage of some highly skilled help. Second, it would help to separate the divers by skill levels so that both the highly skilled and novices alike would have a better chance of getting the full enjoyment from their dives.

Again, it completely depends on the type of boat/op/dive. Resort dive boats should (and usually do) do more of this. Local, open boats don't - and shouldn't have to. But I can also tell you that, even on our local, do-your-own-thing kind of boats, our DMs do the best job they can to ensure that every single person on the boat gets the help they need, and doesn't put themselves in danger. Of course, there's no cure for stupid - and that's not the DM's fault.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for the responses!

You're welcome - and I hope you actually read them!

 

[SolarStorm]

One thing solves all. Talk to each other before the dive, and have a beer after...

 

[Moonglow]

I don't mind a guide in an unfamiliar place.

There's nothing like local knowledge to help you see more on a dive. That's MY biggest perception of the role of the "DM"... that, and knowing how to get to where the most interesting things are.

The best guides aren't DM's; heck, the best guides aren't even certified divers.

 

[TimKy]

LeeAnne, I definitely do read all the posts including yours. This board moves so fast that before I had my last post finished (I took a break during the writing to spend some birthday time with one of my little girls) several of you had posted in the meantime. Sorry if that led to some confusion. It was entirely unintentional.

At the beginning of your post, I got the impression that you think I am bashing DM's or that I think they should be babysitting me and everyone else. I definitely am NOT blaming the DM's and DO NOT think they should babysit. I'm just trying to think through (maybe a forum is the wrong place for this) what I have observed happening on dives and see if there is any way to improve things.

I come from an entrepreneurial business background and my nature is to look for things that can be improved. It's a curse! One of the things that I have seen the most in business is people complaining about a particular thing over and over without attempting to change the conditions that cause it.

I think you and I agree that there are A LOT of divers who don't take appropriate responsibility for themselves. I also think you and I would agree that these divers cause other divers on group dives some level of frustration by diverting resources, shortening dives, getting into dangerous situations, etc. The question is, rather than continue to complain about them (which has become refined into an art on this board) what can be done to change the situation. The possible factors to consider would seem to include the divers themselves, the training, the dive operators and the DM's among others.

By the way, I definitely see your point about the wide variety of situations (tropical cattle boat versus your experience in SoCal). For the sake of this discussion, maybe it would be better to limit things to one situation - tropical dive boats.

To all who suggested increased communication, I couldn't agree more. But as one person said, sometimes people are intimidated and that may affect their ability to clearly communicate their needs/desires/fears.

SolarStorm seems to have cracked the code....talking before and beer (or bourbon in my case) after is probably the simple answer.

I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. Thanks again!

 

[RJP]

SolarStorm seems to have cracked the code....talking before and bourbon after is probably the simple answer.

Note - the order is critical!

:shocked2:

 

[Leejnd]

I do think this is a valuable discussion. Do I think it's going to change anything? Probably not...dive boats and ops will continue to run things the way they do. All we can really do is change ourselves, and alter our own behavior. So in that regard, if this discussion causes one diver to do a little more research into the standard practices of the DMs at a particular dive boat/op/resort before they go, then it's had an impact.

I understand that you are not bashing DM's. However (and I should make it clear I'm not a DM, so I sure can't speak for them!), I suspect my friends who ARE DMs would feel a little bit put-out by at least a few lines in your earlier posts, regardless of your generous intent. Here's a couple of examples:

I keep reading posts about people needing to fend for themselves while the DM's just hang back. If they are just there to occupy space on the same boat or in the same body of water at the same time, then I guess I don't understand the value of a dive master at all.

IMHO, the line about them being certified and needing to take care of themselves is disturbing.

So, the thought that the dive master, (and any other paid employee on the boat) who purports to be an expert in diving and is in a leadership role relating to that dive and that boat feels it is unnecessary hand holding to do anything for the paying clientele other than just show up and make sure the divers actually fall into the water just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not trying to pick apart your post, or your intentions...I'm just suggesting you re-read these lines, now that we've had this discussion and you've gained some perspective on the widely varying possible roles for a DM...and I'd be willing to bet that you now have a better understanding of why these lines probably caused at least a few hackles to be raised. With that in mind, I definitely agree that clearly limiting this discussion to tropical resort-type dive boats will help keep it more focused, and avoid baiting, and being unfair to, DMs who work in completely different environments. Because they ARE so different, and you really cannot have standard roles, procedures, or practices across all of them.

Yes, we both definitely agree that there are a lot of divers who don't take appropriate responsibility for themselves. What can be done about it? Well, we can't do much on Scubaboard. The bare fact is that only a tiny percentage of divers even know about it, much less read or post regularly on it, so we can't expect to educate the diving public in here. Really, all we CAN do here in SB is complain about it! Maybe a few irresponsible divers will read these complaints and rethink how they dive...but even the ones who DO come here, probably wouldn't recognize themselves.

If you REALLY want to change things, further your training and become an instructor! I'm not even going to head down the path of "how bad training is these days" - that's a favorite topic that has been beaten to a pulp on this board. I'm just an average diver - all I can do is become the best diver *I* can be. I can't fix the rest of the diving world.

Since we're going to limit the discussion to resort-type boats, I will say that I have been diving on many of these types of boats in many different parts of the world - Bali, Belize, Costa Rica, French Polynesia, Mexico, Galapagos - and I have seen a wide range of practices, policies, and competence. I've seen good ones (most of the boats I've been on), GREAT ones (Menjangan Island, Bali!) and really bad ones (Galapagos). That's also an unavoidable fact...and another reason why it really is incumbent on divers to be as self-sufficient as possible, and not expect someone else to be responsible for their safety.

Anyway, good discussion, and kudos to you just for being willing to put your thoughts out there. People wonder why I spend so much time on SB - it's because I learn at least as much on this board as I do out there diving!

Oh, and make mine a single-malt Scotch, wouldja?

Editing to add...make that AFTER the dive! (That's for RJP!)

 

[TimKy]

I'm not trying to pick apart your post, or your intentions...I'm just suggesting you re-read these lines, now that we've had this discussion and you've gained some perspective on the widely varying possible roles for a DM...and I'd be willing to bet that you now have a better understanding of why these lines probably caused at least a few hackles to be raised.

Fair enough. I really didn't intend them to be critical of DM's in general. I was really responding to the posts I had read where the DM's were adamant about what they weren't there to do. And the problem was that if you took all the stuff that each DM said they weren't there to do and put them together in one list, it pretty much covered everything. That is why I asked the question.

Oh, and make mine a single-malt Scotch, wouldja?

Will do, but I am from KY and you are breaking my heart!

 

[TimKy]

Note - the order is critical!

:shocked2:

Definitely!!

 

[drrich2]

...We see this out here in SoCal - vacation divers who come here and expect to go on our boats and be treated like they are on a cattle boat in Cozumel. They didn't bother to learn anything about our unique environment - cold water, currents, kelp - and they are stunned to learn that they will not be babysat and catered to like they were when they went on that dive off a cruise ship last year.

Who's fault is that? The DM's? The industry's for not having "standards"? No, it's the diver's - for not doing his homework.

I see your point. Problem is, many new folks who don't know of this forum & just have basic OW training with no prior experience with dive charter boats except that Cozumel example, may not KNOW they 'need to do that homework.' Old saying: You don't know what you don't know.

This isn't unique to diving. Many people get pets without knowing the full ins & outs required for them (although they mistakenly thought they did at the time), and some people spoke to someone they thought was knowledgeable and got bad advice, etc...

I wonder how many web sites for those SoCal charters go out of their way to emphasize messages like 'we don't cater to you like they do in the tropics' or if not guided dives perhaps state 'we're not here to provide guides; navigate yourself back to the boat.'

I have no idea. Do their web sites point these things out? I imagine to people used to the California diving scene it would seem ludicrous not to consider kelp, but I can easily imagine a vacationing newbie not knowing about it, or the potential hazard it poses.

Richard.

 

[Leejnd]

Y'know, Richard, that's an excellent question. I went and checked the websites of a few of the boats I go on regularly, and while a couple really don't have much detail on there, others have excellent and detailed descriptions about what the diving is like out here, and what to expect. For example, check out this site: Calboat Diving. Two of my favorite boats are booked from this site: Peace and Spectre

It includes this passage:

Divemasters: Divemasters do not take divers on tours. They give briefings, answer questions, and are ready to offer assistance. Cal Boat Diving can arrange for divemaster guides but as a rule divers are comfortable on their own.

And it includes lots of other great information about what divers should expect in terms of conditions, hazards, etc.

I don't know about most divers, but I do a lot of dive travel, and I am well aware that things can be VERY different from what I'm used to. I consider it my responsibility as a diver, given the dangers of this sport, to fully research any dive that I plan on doing...anywhere. If I was from elsewhere, and was traveling to CA, I would read that site line for line, and every other website I could find about diving in CA. Even if the dive op/boat I selected didn't offer much on their website, I would be reading OTHER op's websites, and reviews, and blog write-ups. I can't even imagine going diving in a new location and not doing tons of research so I know what I'm getting into. I've done this for every place I've ever traveled to for diving.

Unfortunately, I am aware that lots of divers DON'T do this. It's a shame, because they should. Think about how many accidents could be avoided if divers did their homework? But like I said earlier, we can't change everyone else...we can only change ourselves.