Risk with 1972-1988 AL80 Tanks ?

[bowtieman427]

How much risk is there with 1972-1988 AL80 tanks ? I have been seeing a lot for sale latley and have ranged from $50-80.00. I have one 1979 US Divers that passed Hydro (with eddie current test) last June they said it looked great. I have been hearing that some places will not fill them even if it has an upto date Hydro and VIP are good. So far I have not had that problem but I also do not advertise what I have.
Hava others had problems ?
What is the lifetime of an AL80 ? Have many of you had ones of this vintage fail Hydro or had neck cracks ?

 

[DaleC]

If you really want to know more about your tank read this thread. It will provide many alternative viewpoints and supporting technical links. Good Luck!

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/tanks-valves-bands/301118-how-identify-luxfer-6351-tank.html

 

[Davidstealey3]

your right, a lot of places will not fill them. but as long as they have passed hydro, and they have stamped a VE next to the hydro date a shop should fill them. there are a lot of shops that are uninformed as to this either from lack of knowledge, or they just dont relay the info to the others in the shop. someone that did a vip class 20 years ago ( not sure if they have been around that long ) might not know this. they are suppose to do a refresher evey 2 or 3 years if i am not misstaken to keep them informed of things like this.

i would insist if your older tank has this stamping and passes a VIP that the shop fills it. and if they dont ask them why and have them call the hydro facitity for further clairifacation

 

[overkillphil]

I just got back 2 older al80s back from hydro. The one from '88 failed with piles of cracks around the neck, but the USD tank from '86 passed. I'll have to look at the condemed one to see what kind it was.

 

[AfterDark]

My 1984 AL80 USD Luxfer just passed hydro, my 1969 steel 72 failed.

 

[WD8CDH]

My '75 USD AL72 pass hydro, VE and visual with flying colors. 3 of the 4 shops near me still won't fill them.

 

[newmanl]

We just had our two USD AL 80's get through a hydro and VIP with no issues. One is 1978 and the other is a 1981.

I remember reading somewhere that given the duty cycle limits and if they were properly taken care of that the sevice life was something like 273 years. That should do me.

Oh, and no one has refused to fill them.

Lee

 

[JahJahwarrior]

your right, a lot of places will not fill them. but as long as they have passed hydro, and they have stamped a VE next to the hydro date a shop should fill them. there are a lot of shops that are uninformed as to this either from lack of knowledge, or they just dont relay the info to the others in the shop. someone that did a vip class 20 years ago ( not sure if they have been around that long ) might not know this. they are suppose to do a refresher evey 2 or 3 years if i am not misstaken to keep them informed of things like this.

i would insist if your older tank has this stamping and passes a VIP that the shop fills it. and if they dont ask them why and have them call the hydro facitity for further clairifacation

Shops can and will do whatever they want. Time has shown us that aluminum scuba tanks made from alloys other than 6061 explode more often than any other type of scuba tank. Shops have realized that they are safer and put less people at risk by not filling these riskier tanks.

To add to this, if your 6351 alloy tank explodes, and someone sues (there will be a lawsuit...lawsuits abound nowadays), everyone is over a barrel. The shop will be run out of business when the lawyers for the other side find out that other shops refuse to fill these tanks due to perceived risk. You will be in trouble when the family of the shop employee who got killed/hurt and their lawyers read your post in this thread about how you know your tank is safe even though you've read that 6351 alloys tend to be riskier. Everyone loses. Is it worth putting a tank monkey's life in danger? Why would you do that? Aluminum tanks can be had for $150 or less used, in great shape, in a safe alloy. Are you willing to put someone at higher risk of injury to save $150?

I will never fill a 6351 alloy tank. No one can make me. I will never ask anyone else to fill a 6351 alloy tank. In my opinion, they are riskier than 6061 alloy aluminum and steel alloys, and I am not willing to subject myself or others to that higher risk.


Will yours blow up? Are you willing to bet so much on the answer, when there is even a slight probability that you might be wrong? Scuba tanks are different than regulators. If a regulator breaks, it rarely destroys entire rooms, or rips off limbs. The stakes are high in tank explosions, so even a slight increase of probability of explosion scares me and scares me good!

On the other hand, I used to agree with you all, before I decided that diving was expensive, and I needed to man up and buy safer tanks. 6351 alloy aluminum tanks make great lamps, mailboxes, umbrella holders, door stops and bells.

 

[DaleC]

Shops can and will do whatever they want. Time has shown us that aluminum scuba tanks made from alloys other than 6061 explode more often than any other type of scuba tank. Shops have realized that they are safer and put less people at risk by not filling these riskier tanks.

To add to this, if your 6351 alloy tank explodes, and someone sues (there will be a lawsuit...lawsuits abound nowadays), everyone is over a barrel. The shop will be run out of business when the lawyers for the other side find out that other shops refuse to fill these tanks due to perceived risk. You will be in trouble when the family of the shop employee who got killed/hurt and their lawyers read your post in this thread about how you know your tank is safe even though you've read that 6351 alloys tend to be riskier. Everyone loses. Is it worth putting a tank monkey's life in danger? Why would you do that? Aluminum tanks can be had for $150 or less used, in great shape, in a safe alloy. Are you willing to put someone at higher risk of injury to save $150?

I will never fill a 6351 alloy tank. No one can make me. I will never ask anyone else to fill a 6351 alloy tank. In my opinion, they are riskier than 6061 alloy aluminum and steel alloys, and I am not willing to subject myself or others to that higher risk.


Will yours blow up? Are you willing to bet so much on the answer, when there is even a slight probability that you might be wrong? Scuba tanks are different than regulators. If a regulator breaks, it rarely destroys entire rooms, or rips off limbs. The stakes are high in tank explosions, so even a slight increase of probability of explosion scares me and scares me good!

On the other hand, I used to agree with you all, before I decided that diving was expensive, and I needed to man up and buy safer tanks. 6351 alloy aluminum tanks make great lamps, mailboxes, umbrella holders, door stops and bells.

MY GOD! YOU'D BETTER NOTIFY DOT AND PSI IMMEDIATELY!!!
because apparently you know more about the subject than they do.

PS. I love the fact that you "decided" diving was expensive (I decided diving was fun but to each their own I suppose) and that a man is judged by whether he will pay for unneccisary objects or not. Way to flex that VISA muscle big boy.

Bowtieman try to ignore the emotional appeals and read the thread. All the debates and counter debates are contained within. You should be able to discern what alloy your tank is by the maker and serial numbers. In the end it will come down to whether you trust the regulatory agency for compressed air cylinders and the main training agency for cylinder inspectors or not.

 

[zaberman1]

How much risk is there with 1972-1988 AL80 tanks ? I have been seeing a lot for sale latley and have ranged from $50-80.00. I have one 1979 US Divers that passed Hydro (with eddie current test) last June they said it looked great. I have been hearing that some places will not fill them even if it has an upto date Hydro and VIP are good. So far I have not had that problem but I also do not advertise what I have.
Hava others had problems ?
What is the lifetime of an AL80 ? Have many of you had ones of this vintage fail Hydro or had neck cracks ?

Look, the DOT and CGA both mandate that a cylinder passing a thorough inspection is good for service. Of course, I am assuming the cylinder has met other legal conditions such as renewing its permit if necessary and being a DOT approved cylinder. That being said, so long as a 6351 alloy AL passes a thorough inspection, its cool. The shops that will not fill them are both overreacting and probably ill trained. Call PSI like I did about a week ago and they will give you details on the last few cylinder explosions, which by the way were not even AL. The 6351 alloy is more susceptible to sustained load cracking which is caught by a thorough inspection. Investigations into cylinder explosions relating to the 6351 alloy have revealed that a thorough inspection would have taken the cylinder out of service. I would probably take that cylinder to a TRAINED facility.

Now, every fill station operator has the right to refuse to fill if they have any doubt as to the integrity of the cylinder. If they see a VIP/VCI sticker from a known slap the sticker on the tank facility (ie homemade), then I understand refusing to fill it pending a thorough inspection.