I dive Apeks TX50s and love them... They stay clean and work well under any condition.
right reg for eventual cavern/cave diving?
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i would recommend you to take identical regulators, especially, your primary and backup, due to the safety issues. If you have to switch, and the regulators are same, they should breath the same. If the do not breath the same, you will know that something is wrong. If they are not identical, and if they don't breath the same, you will not know what is the reason.
I agree with all other reasons as well (easier to maintain and change the configuration,...).
I dive Legend LX btw,...
sasha
I agree with all other reasons as well (easier to maintain and change the configuration,...).
I dive Legend LX btw,...
sasha
The biggest problem with the upstream Poseidons is the failure modes that cause a gas delivery stoppage.
To me, any possible decrease in cost, and any possible breathing improvement just wouldn't be worth the increased possibility that my second stage would stop delivering.
I think "have to" is probably a bit strong. The idea is that if you have to dive through debris to get into the cave, and the debris enters the demand valve and starts making the reg breathe wet or freeflow, its trivially easy to unscrew the faceplate, sweep the inside of the reg, and keep going.
Perhaps such a debris problem is impossible with the Poseidons, I don't have that information.
Pretty strong flame, eh?
jeff
Definately preferred
In regards to some of the posts in this thread:
I think it is a good idea to look at your equipment purchases with your future goals in mind. Some people also have very strong opinion on what brand of gear is 'preferred.'
A lot of those opinions are presented by people with no actual experience with the specified equipment or conditions.
My advice is to look at the requirements for some of the types of diving you intend to do. There are many certification agencies that list the recommended gear. Avoid ones that say you should use brand xyz regulator. Instead, look at the ones that say "the benefits of a balanced/unbalanced design regulator is as follows:"
Then you can decide which of those features and benefits best suit you, and narrow your list of regulator types down based on that decision. Just because I like one type of regulator doesnt mean it will work the best for you.
If possible, try to rent as many different regs to try before you make a decision. Of course, make sure they are maintained properly and in good condition, or you won't get an adequate idea of how they really perform.
And lastly, in reference to the TPII and Rec wings comments. I took my cave course using a TPII and Rec wing. I took a DIRF course using a TPII and rec wings. I have a backplate, but I like the TPII. <shrug> I have used this setup with twin steel LP112's with no problems whatsoever. I have also dove this combo using twin AL80's with a stage bottle with no problems. I have also used it for diving single AL80's, single AL100's, single LP112's and even a single LP120. I found this combo works for me with a variety of different tank configurations. Your experiene may be different, so again I would encourage you to try and rent one first.
The nice thing about a BP/wing combo tho, is that you can always change the wing (at some additional cost, but not as much as a new BC) to a more precise combination that works best for your given dive situation.
If you would like some help finding references to equipment types and recommendations for specific diving, let me know and I will look up some of my links and try to post them.
I think it is a good idea to look at your equipment purchases with your future goals in mind. Some people also have very strong opinion on what brand of gear is 'preferred.'
A lot of those opinions are presented by people with no actual experience with the specified equipment or conditions.
My advice is to look at the requirements for some of the types of diving you intend to do. There are many certification agencies that list the recommended gear. Avoid ones that say you should use brand xyz regulator. Instead, look at the ones that say "the benefits of a balanced/unbalanced design regulator is as follows:"
Then you can decide which of those features and benefits best suit you, and narrow your list of regulator types down based on that decision. Just because I like one type of regulator doesnt mean it will work the best for you.
If possible, try to rent as many different regs to try before you make a decision. Of course, make sure they are maintained properly and in good condition, or you won't get an adequate idea of how they really perform.
And lastly, in reference to the TPII and Rec wings comments. I took my cave course using a TPII and Rec wing. I took a DIRF course using a TPII and rec wings. I have a backplate, but I like the TPII. <shrug> I have used this setup with twin steel LP112's with no problems whatsoever. I have also dove this combo using twin AL80's with a stage bottle with no problems. I have also used it for diving single AL80's, single AL100's, single LP112's and even a single LP120. I found this combo works for me with a variety of different tank configurations. Your experiene may be different, so again I would encourage you to try and rent one first.
The nice thing about a BP/wing combo tho, is that you can always change the wing (at some additional cost, but not as much as a new BC) to a more precise combination that works best for your given dive situation.
If you would like some help finding references to equipment types and recommendations for specific diving, let me know and I will look up some of my links and try to post them.
:doctor:
Hey there are a lot of good regs out there. We even had a pole on which reg people thought was the best, Apeks won. AND Boy did pole that bring out the bias. I use the apeks older models before aqualung started selling the line. They are great regs. I use the tech 50D's for back gas and ZRD for deco. All the apeks regs even the newer ones use the same parts kits right from the lower tx40 to the tx200 flathead. The issue on the swivel has never posed a problem for for me, it works fine.
Select your reg for caveing on the best performance you feel is good and it's ability for hose routing. You will find the better regs are the apeks, scuba pro and poseidons. Poseidons do have parts problems in that they sometimes are hard to get.There are others in the aqualung line that are good and some other brands not mentioned that you may want to look at.
Hey there are a lot of good regs out there. We even had a pole on which reg people thought was the best, Apeks won. AND Boy did pole that bring out the bias. I use the apeks older models before aqualung started selling the line. They are great regs. I use the tech 50D's for back gas and ZRD for deco. All the apeks regs even the newer ones use the same parts kits right from the lower tx40 to the tx200 flathead. The issue on the swivel has never posed a problem for for me, it works fine.
Select your reg for caveing on the best performance you feel is good and it's ability for hose routing. You will find the better regs are the apeks, scuba pro and poseidons. Poseidons do have parts problems in that they sometimes are hard to get.There are others in the aqualung line that are good and some other brands not mentioned that you may want to look at.
Doof
Contributor
I have a couple of questions that this thread has raised for me....
1. The point about being able to open up your second stage without tools is interesting. I used to dive a Sherwood Maximus, which was VERY easy to open without tools. I just purchased the Apeks ATX-200, and now I'm not sure how to open up the second stage. Anybody have one of these that knows how? I haven't looked at it too much yet to figure it out.
2. I was looking at some of the images that were linked to a while back. And I found this one.
http://www.wkpp.org/images/pina_equip/right_pocket_contents2_r.jpeg
If I'm interpreting this right, this is what GI carries in his right pocket during a dive.
So my question is... what kind of use do you get out of a spare pair of wrist seals during a dive? That might be a really stupid question but from this newbie's POV, I just can't understand why you'd carry those around with you on a dive.
1. The point about being able to open up your second stage without tools is interesting. I used to dive a Sherwood Maximus, which was VERY easy to open without tools. I just purchased the Apeks ATX-200, and now I'm not sure how to open up the second stage. Anybody have one of these that knows how? I haven't looked at it too much yet to figure it out.
2. I was looking at some of the images that were linked to a while back. And I found this one.
http://www.wkpp.org/images/pina_equip/right_pocket_contents2_r.jpeg
If I'm interpreting this right, this is what GI carries in his right pocket during a dive.
So my question is... what kind of use do you get out of a spare pair of wrist seals during a dive? That might be a really stupid question but from this newbie's POV, I just can't understand why you'd carry those around with you on a dive.
robgrow
Registered
I'm hardly an expert, but FWIW...
In any overhead environment diving scenario, you have to be able to deal with any problem that arises right then and there. Going directly to the surface to remedy the problem is not an option. This is a primary factor that makes cave and tech diving very different from normal recreational diving. Since you don't have the luxury of surfacing to get the tools to do something simple like clearing debris from the exhaust valve of a 2nd stage, ideally you would be using a 2nd stage that can be easily disassembled without tools. I'm pretty sure the Apeks ATX200 can be. I leave the front covers on my Apeks TX-40's and Tx-50's slightly lose, so that it is easier remove them underwater.
Keep in mind that the images you are seeing on the WKPP web site are of the equipment that is being used for extreme exploration dives. Losing a wrist seal on your dry suit at 300 ffw and 18,000 feet back in a cave with several hours of deco ahead is not a good thing, so GI carries extra wrist seals as backups.
-bob
In any overhead environment diving scenario, you have to be able to deal with any problem that arises right then and there. Going directly to the surface to remedy the problem is not an option. This is a primary factor that makes cave and tech diving very different from normal recreational diving. Since you don't have the luxury of surfacing to get the tools to do something simple like clearing debris from the exhaust valve of a 2nd stage, ideally you would be using a 2nd stage that can be easily disassembled without tools. I'm pretty sure the Apeks ATX200 can be. I leave the front covers on my Apeks TX-40's and Tx-50's slightly lose, so that it is easier remove them underwater.
Keep in mind that the images you are seeing on the WKPP web site are of the equipment that is being used for extreme exploration dives. Losing a wrist seal on your dry suit at 300 ffw and 18,000 feet back in a cave with several hours of deco ahead is not a good thing, so GI carries extra wrist seals as backups.
-bob
The Pirate
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Everyone seems to push the Apex regs but they aren't available everywhere. Don't overlook Oceanic's regs. Both 1st's and 2nd's are good reliable regs. And the 2nds can be disassembled and reassembled u/w.
The Pirate
The Pirate
Doof
Contributor
I can completely understand the need to be able to take care of problems underwater, but what I'm wondering is... how do you replace a wrist seal underwater?
The Pirate
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You don't. The spare seal is placed over the ripped seal and held in place over the drysuit with a rubber band. It is a bandaid to get you out of the cave without getting too wet.
The Pirate
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