right reg for eventual cavern/cave diving?

[Aquamaniac]

I have had TX50's/DS4's for 3 years now. I have dismantled them on an annual basis, and every time I service them, I wonder why I bothered.
They still look like new inside.

Very Cheap to maintain.

Dave

 

[kcanty]

Having recently started the journey I thought I could
help with a few suggestions.

Regs: apeks or scubapro or atomics ( I chose scubapro
based on past experience and hose routing ) If apeks then
the DS4 ( Dry sealed ) or flathead seems preferred and all the
2nd stages are very similar. For apeks hose routing
the "flathead" 1st stage is apparently the best.
Again I do not own these but have researched and
looked at the configs in person.

Here's the flatheads hose routing:
http://www.wkpp.org/articles/Gear/equipmentimages.htm

and here's some pics of the DS4
http://www.fifthd.com/h2oadventuregear/productinfo/regconfig.html

The atomics Z1 is a good reg at a good price.

By the way you mentioned getting the dive rite rec wings.

For doubles you are going to want either dive rite classic wings
or the halcyon explorer 55's. For singles either the halcyon 27 or 36 lb wing.

There's a lot more to tell but take it slow and get good instruction.
Please search the archives and post ANY questions you have. I just wish I had found better help before I purchased equipment 2-3 times incorrectly.

Kell

 

[Josh Levinson]

The only thing I would all this is that I don't like the reasoning that your backup regs (either 1st or 2nd stage) should be of lower performance than your primaries, because they're only backups. When you have a problem underwater and you need to switch to your backups (whether it be regs, or whatever), they better be in good working condition or you'll be in for a pretty unpleasant surprise. If your regs aren't of equal performance, if anything, the backup should be better performing than your primary.

As for the Apeks... I use TX100s as my primary and backup. They're very good regs, and I haven't had any problems with them, but I've breathed other regs which seemed just as good under similar conditions (but I haven't really pushed my regs to the limits).

About the routing, whether you do cave diving or not, I think proper routing is important for any kind of technical diving. I'm happy with the routing config of the TX100s, and for stage regs, having a swivel is kinda nice (although I'm sure I'll be yelled at by many people for saying that).

Good luck making your decision.


Josh

 

[Josh Levinson]

Sorry... just a couple more things.

What's wrong with the rec wings for doubles? You mean cuz they have 51 lbs lift instead of 55?

And as for choosing the right equipment, another good idea is to speak to a tech instructor that you can trust and ask his/her opinion.


Josh

 

[Fetch]

WHOA

I didn't state the reason that the backup reg is low-performance and not air-balanced. The REASON is that such regulators are less prone to freeflow. And whether it is around your neck or clipped on your hip, you don't want your backup reg freeflowing your gas out in a cave.

Your backup reg doesn't have to breath beautifully, it has to breath reliably

jeff

Josh Levinson once bubbled...
The only thing I would all this is that I don't like the reasoning that your backup regs (either 1st or 2nd stage) should be of lower performance than your primaries, because they're only backups. When you have a problem underwater and you need to switch to your backups (whether it be regs, or whatever), they better be in good working condition or you'll be in for a pretty unpleasant surprise. If your regs aren't of equal performance, if anything, the backup should be better performing than your primary.

As for the Apeks... I use TX100s as my primary and backup. They're very good regs, and I haven't had any problems with them, but I've breathed other regs which seemed just as good under similar conditions (but I haven't really pushed my regs to the limits).

About the routing, whether you do cave diving or not, I think proper routing is important for any kind of technical diving. I'm happy with the routing config of the TX100s, and for stage regs, having a swivel is kinda nice (although I'm sure I'll be yelled at by many people for saying that).

Good luck making your decision.


Josh

 

[kcanty]

There's a couple of reasons for the recommendation
for classic over rec wings. One is the lift. I don't dive
a rec wing but it seems a little light for an eventual configuration
of stages and double backgas 104's. I have a classic wing
and a drysuit and it seems ok ( 59 lbs ). Also lift is voodoo among
manufacturer's and no-one measures it the same.

One other caveat is that the rec-wing is supposed
to work for singles and doubles and that is why
I think the original poster seems to prefer it. I have
found ( the hard, expensive way ) that expecting a
single wing to work with double 104's and a single
al80 does NOT work well. I was trying to save him
from that folly but should have pointed that out
more clearly. Like I said, there's a lot to learn
( I certainly am ) and you can't do it all at once...

Kell

 

[merkin]

Wow, I'm impressed that you have all have been so helpful.

Given that I haven't bought anything just yet I have an interesting thought experiment for you all (similar to the original question) - if you could recommend gear to yourself 6-12 months before you sought cavern/cave certs - what would you have told your "past-self" to buy?

Again, thanks for the warm reception!:bonk:

 

[willanz]

I would have recommended getting comfortable in a double tank configuration for all my diving before doing any overhead training.

Gear:
Double AL 80s, Highland Bands, 300 Bar Din Manifold (Double Barrel O-Ring)
40 LB Wing
Back Plate/Harness
Regs:
300 Bar Din.
1st stage- NON SWIVEL
2nd stage-MUST BE ABLE TO OPEN IT WITHOUT TOOLS
Pressure Gauge and Bottom Timer

Then go out and do 50 dives before entering any overhead.

Oh well...

Now that I do have Cave Training...I went a picked up a set of gear like I have described above for all my non overhead diving.

All I need to do is add a couple of lights and Spools and we are ready to go.

 

[Campana]

kcanty once bubbled...
There's a couple of reasons for the recommendation
for classic over rec wings. One is the lift. I don't dive
a rec wing but it seems a little light for an eventual configuration
of stages and double backgas 104's. I have a classic wing
and a drysuit and it seems ok ( 59 lbs ). Also lift is voodoo among
manufacturer's and no-one measures it the same.

One other caveat is that the rec-wing is supposed
to work for singles and doubles and that is why
I think the original poster seems to prefer it. I have
found ( the hard, expensive way ) that expecting a
single wing to work with double 104's and a single
al80 does NOT work well. I was trying to save him
from that folly but should have pointed that out
more clearly. Like I said, there's a lot to learn
( I certainly am ) and you can't do it all at once...

Kell

I think the lift in the Rec wing is adequate for doubles and stages, though I haven't really used it that way much, it worked ok the one time I used it.

The rec wing works OK for doubles, not so good for singles. It wraps up around the tank, and you have to wallow back and forth to try to burp air into the less full side or it tries to throw you out of balance. The bungees might help, but I removed them. It works well for doubles, I don't think any wing will really work with both. I have the 27# Halcyon for singles, and will get the Halcyon for doubles as soon as I get around to it. Meanwhile, the rec wing has been adequate.

 

[thethumper]

get hammered for this.... but here goes.

I use a TPII w/a Rec. I am buying the BP/Harness w/a Classic wing (for heavy dbls.). I will use my Rec w/the BP until I buy a set of my own dbls. I use my Rec for singles now & it works fine. However, you do have to give a bit of a right shoulder roll to dump from the lower left dump. If you're going to use light dbls & singles w/the Rec, you should be fine. Once you move to the heavier dbls., ie. LP104s & up, you are going to need more lift, like the Classic.

As for regs. I don't use the regs these guys use. I use (ducking for cover) Poseidon Odins. The DIR/GUE guys will have a fit because it's an upstream reg. However. For as long (about 10 years) as I've been diving in cave counrty, I would put Odins or Cyclons in the 50-60% ranged of what I have seen others using.

"You can't take it apart u/w!" If I have to take a reg apart u/w.... I don't want to dive it. Before DIR/GUE a VERY large % of you tech divers used Odins. And a very large % still do.

Ok Odin divers..... Chime in any time now....

Also... If you're going to dive Cave/Cavern, a DIN reg is prefered.