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ianr33:
Could somebody explain why RGBM has any relevance to recreational No Stop diving? RGBM has deeper stops than a Buhlman model,but if you are within the NDL you dont need any stops at all,so why worry what deco model you are following? (and saying "every dive is a deco dive" is NOT an explanation!! )

My personal opinion is that it's 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other unless you're over the NDL's.

Anything you get on extra conservatism from RGBM within the NDLs can also be gotten from common sense.

R..
 
Thanks for the examples but that is for a DECO dive. Seems the only effect for a NDL dive of using RGBM is to reduce the bottom time by 2 minutes.

Let me put it another way.If I am planning a deco dive I personally use V-Planner. I dont use that for a NDL dive (although I could), heck,I might even use PADI tables (or more likely just check the NDL my computer gives me)

For technical dives bubble models seem the only way to go.To have a recreational computer boasting of having a RGBM model seems to me to be mainly marketing. Why have a better model for calculating deco stops if you aren't doing any??
 
ianr33:
Thanks for the examples but that is for a DECO dive. Seems the only effect for a NDL dive of using RGBM is to reduce the bottom time by 2 minutes.

Let me put it another way.If I am planning a deco dive I personally use V-Planner. I dont use that for a NDL dive (although I could), heck,I might even use PADI tables (or more likely just check the NDL my computer gives me)

For technical dives bubble models seem the only way to go.To have a recreational computer boasting of having a RGBM model seems to me to be mainly marketing. Why have a better model for calculating deco stops if you aren't doing any??

Again, I stressed it's a very simplified explanation. The differences are not simply for Deco dives alone. Dissolved gases algorithms (Haldane and the more updated versions) assumes that all inert gas stays in solution, bubble separation and growth is the central focus in RGBM and the prevention of the formation is it's key concept.

I'm simplying it further but it's like treating a patient for a disease as opposed to preventing the patient from getting the disease in the first place.

This doesn't mean RGBM is more "conservative" either. Using NDL examples, under the existing NAUI tables, a NDL dive to 100 fsw is 22 min. Assume a SIT of 3 hrs, a diver can make a second dive to 70 fsw for 30 min (NDL). Under RGBM, the NDL for the first dive is 20 min but the second dive is 45 min NDL (assuming a 3 hour NDL).

Use whatever you want ... just dive safe. Besides, RGBM hasn't swept the recreational diving community in totality as yet. Diving with buddies not using the same algo is something more risky.
 
Diver0001:
There aren't many possibilities here:

1) It's not true and he has a hidden agenda
2) He's super sensitive to DCS and dosn't know where to draw the line
3) He's super sensitive to DCS, doesn't know where to draw the line and has a hidden agenda

Personally I think it's a pot-shot at Bruce Wienke and a bit of feather fluffing in the direction of Wienke fans like George Irvine.

R..

R...

Let's see...Mark Ellyat....hmmm.

I choose number 3.5---He's super sensitive to DCS, doesn't know where to draw the line and has a hidden agenda....and....to quote Doc Intrepid...he comes off as d***head!! :D
 
ianr33:
Thanks for the examples but that is for a DECO dive. Seems the only effect for a NDL dive of using RGBM is to reduce the bottom time by 2 minutes.

Let me put it another way.If I am planning a deco dive I personally use V-Planner. I dont use that for a NDL dive (although I could), heck,I might even use PADI tables (or more likely just check the NDL my computer gives me)

For technical dives bubble models seem the only way to go.To have a recreational computer boasting of having a RGBM model seems to me to be mainly marketing. Why have a better model for calculating deco stops if you aren't doing any??
I don't see how this fits in DIR forum. Using computer? Not doing deco stops?
 
BigJetDriver69:
R...

Let's see...Mark Ellyat....hmmm.

I choose number 3.5---He's super sensitive to DCS, doesn't know where to draw the line and has a hidden agenda....and....to quote Doc Intrepid...he comes off as d***head!! :D
:D and uses plastic fins.
 
RGBM is a gas theory. It deals with both fast and slow tissue groups , But it does not deal with human physiological principles. The longer a dive is ,the more dehydrated the diver becomes. This slows down the offgas process. There is no moisture in breathing gas, but the human body breathes out moisture with every breath. No math algorithm can calculate every humans physiology much less dehydration. So this leaves a diver with two choices. Do you want to get out of the water fast or do you want to get out of the water clean .

this goes beyond the scope of DIR, That's why I posted here . I'll leave now.
 
MonkSeal:
I don't see how this fits in DIR forum. Using computer? Not doing deco stops?

I wondered about that too. Maybe this should be moved to the Marine Science and Physiology section?
 
camshaft:
So the articles on Ellyatt's site don't make any of you guys question how good it really is? Just wondering, because no one had any comments on the major problems he had after I posted that link.

-Austin

http://www.inspired-training.com/Assessing%20dive%20profile%20safety%20using%20a%20combined%20decompression%20model%20V1_6.pdf

just another article on his site, if you guys are bored.

I have SEEN the code that Bruce supplies, He makes approximations to simplify things and there is definately a 180m limit in the code that is clear to anyonme who understands the math.. His dives were beyond this since ABYSS didn;t limit to this.. Both Gap and Hydrospace explorer adhere to this limit..

Also I was part of an expedition to indonesia last year.. we did 14 days of sub 125m dives.. max was 154m (a bit over 500fsw) with BOTTOM times up to 38 minutes, not the quickie bounce dives that Mark did. were ascent and descent rates are critical.. All profiles were generated with the ANDI version of Gap and backed up by the explorer computer.. Everyone was fine, the only problems were that some divers had vr3s as backup computers and it didnt like the fact that on average we were out of the water more than an hhour before the vr3 said we needed to be..
 
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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