Rescued the Out of Air Newby today

[supergaijin]

I think this thread clarifies in my mind what my instructor told me in the pool last Monday, "You begin your ascent at an early enough point to leave ​

my 500 psi in the tank."

You do realize how utterly silly your instructor's directive is, right?

Ask him at the next classroom, well how do I do that?
What pressure should I leave at?
Does it matter what depth I'm at?
Does it matter what size tank I have?
Does it matter if I am super cold and tired and breathing hard?
Shall I hurry my ascent if it looks like I will reach the surface with 400 lbs?

I don't think that's silly at all. You begin your ascent or turn around at a point where you'll have a reserve at the surface. Many factors come in to play as you have pointed out, but the premise remains the same.

 

[agilis]

Some of the discussion in this thread seems almost surreal, reflecting perspectives that I find incomprehensible. I've been diving for a long, long time. On every dive my attention is focused on my SPG. It seems to me to be pure idiocy to not closely monitor your air supply and rate of air consumption. Not a minute goes by without an air check, especially on deeper dives. I'm not sure how students are trained these days, but certainly self-reliance should be paramount, the concept that you are responsible for yourself, and that if you run out of air because you are not paying attention you will probably drown.

We talk about the nanny state and its corrosive effects, but any training program that coddles new divers by making them feel that someone is watching over them, and that they will be bailed out of any dangerous situation, is the worst manifestation of nannyism. Some may sneer at solo divers, but at least they know that there is no mommy or daddy figure that will save them from the consequences of their own stupidity. If I were diving with a sincere willing to learn new diver who became distracted by some activity to the extent that they ran out of air I'd certainly do my best to save them. Afterwards I'd give them the beating of their lives. That might help reinforce the learning process.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Some of the discussion in this thread seems almost surreal, reflecting perspectives that I find incomprehensible. I've been diving for a long, long time. On every dive my attention is focused on my SPG. It seems to me to be pure idiocy to not closely monitor your air supply and rate of air consumption. Not a minute goes by without an air check, especially on deeper dives. I'm not sure how students are trained these days, but certainly self-reliance should be paramount, the concept that you are responsible for yourself, and that if you run out of air because you are not paying attention you will probably drown.

Checking your air every minute seems excessive to me ... but if that makes you feel comfortable, then by all means do it. Every few minutes seems more reasonable. But self-reliance here doesn't appear to be the issue ... task-loading does. And that is a significant issue with new divers in particular because they have to make conscious effort to do things that more experienced divers have learned to do without putting much conscious thought into it.

We talk about the nanny state and its corrosive effects, but any training program that coddles new divers by making them feel that someone is watching over them, and that they will be bailed out of any dangerous situation, is the worst manifestation of nannyism. Some may sneer at solo divers, but at least they know that there is no mommy or daddy figure that will save them from the consequences of their own stupidity.

As someone who enjoys solo diving, it's not something I'd ever recommend to a new diver ... nor would I encourage them to even think about it until they get some dives under their belt and develop their basic skills to the point where they could anticipate and respond to pretty much any emergency they might encounter underwater. We encourage buddy diving for a reason ... and it has nothing to do with nannyism. Yes, it's important for a diver to develop self-reliance. It's not something that one acquires during their OW training ... four or five dives isn't nearly adequate to teach you how to become self-reliant ... it's barely enough to train you how to remember to respond to the most basic safety skills. Self-reliance comes with practice ... and that takes bottom time. Too often the experienced diver forgets what it was like when they were learning how to dive ... particularly among those who learned decades ago.

If I were diving with a sincere willing to learn new diver who became distracted by some activity to the extent that they ran out of air I'd certainly do my best to save them. Afterwards I'd give them the beating of their lives. That might help reinforce the learning process.

I learned early in life that beating someone teaches them nothing except perhaps an endurance for pain and a lasting resentment toward the person doing the beating. Physical violence has no place in dive instruction ... or little else, to my concern.

People learn best when they understand why what they're learning is important ... and they listen best to someone who sets a good example. In this case, I would encourage this person to leave the camera behind until they solidify their skills somewhat, and try to help them understand how carrying one contributed to the situation they found themselves in.

I've run into all manner of underwater stupidity over the years, and what I've learned is that you can't make people listen to you ... you can, however, conduct yourself in a way that makes them want to. And only when someone wants to hear you will you ever be able to help them. Bringing someone safely to the surface is only part of the rescue. Helping them learn how to avoid putting themselves in that situation again is the harder part.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[merxlin]

........................I've run into all manner of underwater stupidity over the years, and what I've learned is that you can't make people listen to you ... you can, however, conduct yourself in a way that makes them want to. And only when someone wants to hear you will you ever be able to help them. Bringing someone safely to the surface is only part of the rescue. Helping them learn how to avoid putting themselves in that situation again is the harder part.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Well said Bob.

 

[JamesK]

Checking your air every minute seems excessive to me

I agree. Your SPG is just a backup to your brain. You should know your SAC and be able to be reasonably close to your pressure in your head without having to constantly check your SPG.

Am I coming down on anyone who checks their SPG every minute? Nope. Like Bob said, if it make you comfortable, do it. Just try to start learning more how you dive and your air consumption so you can know in your head just by looking at your dive time and depth where your SPG should read.

 

[Dbmata]

Nah, I would have told him to blow it - but been ready to help if needed, even dumping his weights if he continued to screw up.

I was wondering about this, at the surface, if he didn't blow up his bcd, would it have been prudent to pull his weights? That would ensure buoyancy at the surface.

 

[agilis]

NWGD,I was attempting a bit of humor with my remark about beating, but I guess I was unsuccessful. In truth I think it's a very bad idea to use physical violence. Little old ladies used to be a safe target but many of them are armed these days.

Checking my air on deep dives about every minute is a habit I developed decades ago. Of course, I stop completely if I see something interesting to look at, or if I start to think about what I should have said to the smartmouth clerk in the dollar store if only I had thought of it in time. Shallow dives I don't check my air as often, epecially in a pool where I can touch bottom.

All of my early diving was solo, self- taught. Naturally, you get what you pay for. I eventually got certified when local shops began demaning c cards. I learned a lot about people during those classes and pool sessions. I remember the dude who wore a knife on his leg even during classroom sessions. That was the instructor, of course.

 

[tomfcrist]

I learned early in life that beating someone teaches them nothing except perhaps an endurance for pain and a lasting resentment toward the person doing the beating. Physical violence has no place in dive instruction ... or little else, to my concern.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, While i dont agree with pounding on a diver to teach them a lesson......Getting my a$$ beat as a kid prevented me from being a meth head, wanna be gang banging douchbag that most of the kids i grew up with became. The lack of corpral punishment in america is why we have so many self absorbed, disrespectful, ignorant scumbags in the current generation.

Just my two cents.....not related to diving whatsoever.....probably gonna get deleted by the MODs. Whatever.

 

[DandyDon]

I was wondering about this, at the surface, if he didn't blow up his bcd, would it have been prudent to pull his weights? That would ensure buoyancy at the surface.

Well, to me - it'd depend on how buoyant he was. If he failed to orally inflate but was staying on the surface, I'd blow it for him. If he started sinking, I'd dip down and ditch his weights - and might do that if he seemed to have other difficulties even on the surface. Normally I like to keep the reg in my mouth until on the boat and suggest that to buds, but he had no gas for that.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

NWGD,I was attempting a bit of humor with my remark about beating, but I guess I was unsuccessful. In truth I think it's a very bad idea to use physical violence. Little old ladies used to be a safe target but many of them are armed these days.

Checking my air on deep dives about every minute is a habit I developed decades ago. Of course, I stop completely if I see something interesting to look at, or if I start to think about what I should have said to the smartmouth clerk in the dollar store if only I had thought of it in time. Shallow dives I don't check my air as often, epecially in a pool where I can touch bottom.

All of my early diving was solo, self- taught. Naturally, you get what you pay for. I eventually got certified when local shops began demaning c cards. I learned a lot about people during those classes and pool sessions. I remember the dude who wore a knife on his leg even during classroom sessions. That was the instructor, of course.

Was his name Ray ???

Your basic diving outfit is a mask and flippers, plus the breathing apparatus, which you can rent. But there are all kinds of other neat gear objects you can get, the neatest one, as far as I'm concerned, being: a knife. All my life I've wanted an excuse to wear a knife, and here I have found a sport where it is actually encouraged. "Diving knives are practical tools, " states the PADI course manual, "providing you with a means to measure, pry, dig, cut and pound under water." But the REAL advantage, which the manual fails to note, is that you can wear your knife strapped to your leg.

There's something about striding around with a knife strapped to your leg that makes you feel exceedingly James Bondlike. If you can keep a little secret, I will confess to you that right at this very moment, as I write these words, I have my knife strapped on. Just in case somebody comes along and, for example, tries to cut my word processor cord. As Ray Lang put it, during one of his colorful diving anecdotes: "You never can tell when the inevitable is gonna happen."

Read more here: Blub story a very deep experience - Dave Barry - MiamiHerald.com

... Bob (Grateful Diver)