Rescued the Out of Air Newby today

[DandyDon]

Thanks! I'm going to practice this with my buddies.

Not getting into a CESA need is by far preferable of course, but if caca hits fan - getting to the surface and staying afloat is paramount. There is a chance of saving a diver who drowns or takes an AGE if found quickly, but not much so if a search has to be done, located later like the Venice diver this weekend, or not found like the Blake Is. lost this weekend.

 

[TSandM]

Just for any new divers who are reading this thread . . . In the event of finding yourself low on, or out of air, you have options. The BEST option is to ascend on your own gas, if you are low but not out of air, and have enough to do an ascent. Remember that some decompression models permit a 60 fpm ascent rate, which means that it shouldn't take you more than a minute to get to the surface, if you have respected OW diver limits. As long as you have about 4 cubic feet of gas (200 psi in an Al80) you should be able to do that.

The second choice is to share gas with another diver. If you are VERY low, this may be the first choice, as it permits a controlled and calm ascent to the surface. Bratface did just the right thing in this situation, in my view, or at least it's what I would have done (which makes it right, right? ). Saving the diver's reserve, whatever it was at that point, means that he's got something to breathe if surface conditions are choppy or difficult, or if he gets separated from his rescuer.

Third choice is CESA, which is only to be utilized if the diver is OUT of gas, and NOT within reach of anyone with whom to share -- that's TWO major failures on one dive. We teach CESA so that people understand that they CAN reach the surface by themselves, but not with the expectation that anyone will actually USE the technique.

You can also buddy breathe, something which is no longer taught and shouldn't be necessary in a day when almost everyone carries a second regulator. Or you can do an emergency buoyant ascent, which is what happens when you drop weights. It's a bad answer, but beats drowning.

To me, this story illustrates a sad point, which is that new divers leave their OW classes with no information at all that helps them decide what the "drop dead" point is, at which they simply MUST ascend from where they are, because if they stay any longer, they will not have enough gas to get up. Articles like Bob Bailey's GAS MANAGEMENT piece help to fill this void in education, but of course, only SB readers will know about them. Here we have a diver who had probably been watching his gauge drop, couldn't convey the problem to the dive leader, didn't want to leave the dive leader, and ended up in trouble. Knowing where the "drop dead" line was would have made his choices easier, I think.

 

[drbill]

I think it is difficult to assess this situation accurately with just the knowledge that at 38 ft the diver had 500 psi left. Yes, that is enough air for a calm, composed diver to safely ascend and make a normal safety stop. However, I have not yet read about the entire dive profile. Since one diver was recently certified OW, I assume these divers were not ascending from a maximum depth of over 100 ft but less than 60 ft, but we really don't know what their prior profile was.

Another factor to consider is the accuracy of the SPG. When it reads 500 psi, is it really 300 psi (or 700 psi)? In many of my most recent dives the entire profile is very shallow (max depth 25-30 ft) to increase bottom time (and thereby filming time), I may be returning at depths less than 10 ft. Having 500 psi (or less) in my tank is fine at those depths (although I don't want to run the pressure too low of course). If I were to draw my tank down to 500 psi, I'd want to be within safety stop depth myself just to be sure.

 

[beaverdivers]

A question for the OP: Was the SPG working properly or was the diver Out of Air when the SPG read 500 PSI?

 

[Antigen]

To add to TSandM's argument of keeping a reserve for the OOA diver for contigencies, I would add that sharing air also avoids a potential panick situation if the OOA diver's gauge is overestimating the pressure and then the reg becomes hard to breath. I had a situation where a diver did an ESA because my octo was a bit hard to breath and the already stressful situation led to panick.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Yep. Bratface did leave a little confusion with "He has less than 500 psi," vs "Once on the surface I tell him to orally inflate his BC. He still tries to inflate with his inflator hose but I remind him he is out of air," but she called it and worked it well. Dealing with a newbie who has lost his buddy or not bothered to dive with one, followed his camera so closely as to not manage his air well - perhaps finding the reg hard to breath, and not taking it upon himself to bail and head up when he finally noticed his failure - she got him up and got him to orally inflate. I would have been preparing to dump his weights for him if he started sinking and I bet she was ready for that too. We read all too many stories here in A&I of divers surfacing, then sinking - lost. There's one here in A&I from this past weekend.

In a similar situation, we may not know exactly what the LOA/OOA diver has in his tank so any actions needed to ensure he gets to the surface and stays afloat are warranted. Sounds like this diver might have failed on the surface anyway even if he'd done a CESA. One Inst here has convinced me that if I ever screw up enough do another one, I should pull my weights and hold them on the way up - just in case, so I'd drop them if I passed out for any of various possible reasons.

I think that ispoor advice from your instructor... You are going to hand hold a weightbelt on ascent? Why risk dropping it and shooting to the surface?

I would much prefer to STOP swimming, ride the expanding air in the BC upward and vent as appropriate. if you should pass out and have not over deflated the BC, the expanding air in the BC should also put you on the surface. I think fumbling with a weightbelt like that is a waste of time, concentration and will serve to increase stress...

If you donot have any air and are negative, then by all means drop the belt... But I would be concentrating on manamging a low stress, low exertion, slightly bouyant ascent.. rather than trying to remove and hold a weight belt when the benefit is marginal and the drawbacks could be serious of losing it. Plus it ties up a hand, may require you to ditch other gear like a camera etc.

 

[DandyDon]

I think that ispoor advice from your instructor... You are going to hand hold a weightbelt on ascent? Why risk dropping it and shooting to the surface?

Not my Inst exactly. Read that from Ken, an LA CA Inst with the coroner's office here in A&I.

The reasons were as given already: Better to be an injured diver on the surface in need of rescue than a dead one on the bottom as the object of a search & recovery - and all too many dead divers are found with weight intact.

It would be a challenging situation, sure - as is any emergency. Pulling even one pouch to carry up should not be allowed to distract from the primary objective of getting and stay up, but drills make it easier.

 

[Bratface]

Thank you everyone for your responses to my post, Scubaboard has always been a forum for learning. Thanks especially to the divers who recognized the situation and understand my response. Some of you said you would have handled things differently. Let me say that you were not there so you really do not know how you would handle it until the situation is in front of you. I also know that you would welcome my donation of air if you were new and needed help.

To try to make things a little clearer, everyone on the dive was relatively new to diving except me and the dive leader. I dive with the same dive operation just about every weekend, they are my friends. I am a registered nurse with a real interest in NOT having to do CPR on the boat. I also live on an island in the caribbean where we have lots of inexperienced, new, and out of practice divers. We also have lots of excellent, experienced repeat divers. Our dive on Sunday was to 56 feet for 50 minutes in 80 degree water. Our water is more buoyant than what most divers are accustomed to and they usually need to add a few extra pounds of weight.

When the newby showed me his gauge, I saw it was in the middle of the red zone. He had "that look" in his eyes, so I really don't know if he had 300, 200, or 0 psi. He obviously needed air so I gave it to him. Back on the boat he told me he was not getting enough air so we can assume he was nearly out.

g1138-- yes, he gave the short cut hand signal for half a tank. When I showed him the low on air and the out of air signals back on the boat, he looked at me like I was speaking Greek. He was shown the half tank and low on air signals to use during the dive brief. He was composed because he had practiced the same ascent with a buddy during his OW class. I am glad he did.

Six 2 Life-- This thread is not about newbys with cameras, it is about learning how to avoid having this happen, hence the discussion. So you did well with your camera on a Discovery Dive. Good for you. DSD's are a much smaller group for uncertified divers. You are being watched like a hawk watches new chicks. 10 dives later you carried your camera into a cenote. I am glad you got some good pics, I know I did when I dove the centoes. You also were in a very small group of 4 divers in fresh water. Now if you will read my post again, I NEVER implied a camera turned anyone into a tank hovering oblivious stooge. I also clearly stated that a camera for inexperienced divers was my opinion. I read your profile and you don't note how many dives you have or where you have dove, but I do notice you list yourself as a solo diver....hmmm.

Snorkel LA-- yes, I gave him my primary. My secondary is on my inflator hose making it impossible to donate air to anyone. It works well to get someone to the surface which is it's intended purpose.

To the person who wanted to know if his SPG was working properly, how would I know? I don't even know this guy, dove with him twice. It's his gear, not mine. It appeared to be new so I can only assume that it was accurate. As I stated before, I did not really see how much air he actually had left, just a needle in the middle of the red zone.

DiverZach and others-- We were pretty far from the boat and I didn't want to make a straight ascent and have a long surface swim. I knew I had enough air to get us to the boat or close by which is why I ascended to 20 feet and continued to swim. I knew if we needed to get to the surface, it would be easier for us. The surface was choppy and I was drafted into this without any prior notice. I couldn't have refused if I wanted to (remember I am a nurse, I am supposed to save lives).

So I hope that answers everyone's questions. I will tell you that when I dove with this same guy in February, I had to rescue him from himself again. He was seasick and did ok on the dive until he surfaced. He immediately spit out his reg, did not inflate his BC and did not have his hand on the tag line and a wave was coming towards all of us waiting to climb the ladder. I yelled at him to put his reg in his mouth while I inflated his BC. Then he drifted backwards and I had to swim to get him and push him back to the boat. So is anyone wondering why I didn't hesitate to shove my reg in his mouth this time?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Sounds like better advice to him would have been to take up tennis or golf.

 

[Dbmata]

Sounds like better advice to him would have been to take up tennis or golf.

Crass. By far better to help him learn from his mistake, so he can make more creative ones in the future.