Rescue vs. advanced

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Im PADI and another agency, not NAUI, so I am not familiar with NAUI's AOW course. However if it is the same as PADI's AOW and you can take rescue before AOW, I would do that.

Rescue will help make you more aware of potential issues, not only in your buddies but also in yourself.

AOW can certainly appear to be a waste of money for some divers, but for others I think it is valuable learning experience. The big question is what kind of diving will you be doing and where? The second question is what kind of support do you have from more experienced divers, and can you trust them to guide you safely into new limits?

I took BOW and AOW concurrently, rescue came a few years and hundreds of dives later. I am not sure if I got more out of Rescue because I had different POV, or if I would have gotten more had I taken it right away.

When to take classes and what classes to take are an incredibly personal decision, but one thing that I feel is constant as that as long as you can continue to assimilate new information, more is always better, and knowing it before you need it is always better than learning after the fact.
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone! It looks like I will probably take my CPR/first aid and Rescue before advanced if I can. First order of business of course is to get many more dives in first. I don't doubt that AOW has some value, if even only for the experience of the dives. It simply seems to be of a lower importance in my eyes. I'd much rather know how to rescue a panicked OOA diver than know how to dive to 130'. AOW seems like alot of fun as far as the dives are concerned and I do actually look forward to it.
 
The AOW card is good to have if only because some ops will require it for some dives (whether that makes sense or not, but that's the way it is.) It's not really advanced, it's more like OW part 2, and if you wait too long to take it good chance you won't get much out of it. Besides getting a good instructor, another way to get more out of it is to choose the right electives and not pad it with stuff like Fish ID or Boat Diving or anything else that you can mostly learn from a book and doesn't focus more on UW skills.
 
I'm gonna disagree with ya a bit here, Dan. Trim and propulsion are important skills, for sure ... but I don't think they're either necessary for the rescue class, nor more important. They are completely different goals.

A properly taught Rescue class is as much about what goes on inside your head as it is about what goes on with your body ... or your buddy. Most diving accidents occur because either the diver made poor decisions (often during the planning stages of the dive) or because they didn't recognize the signs of an impending incident until the incident occurred. A properly taught Rescue class is as much about learning how to keep yourself out of trouble as it is about reacting to a situation once you're in trouble. It provides you with a perspective on the kinds of decisions that lead to problems, and teaches you how to avoid them.

This is valuable knowledge at ALL levels of diving, and it's never too early to start learning it.

It is true that the more skilled you are with your buoyancy control, trim and propulsion, the more ability you will have to deal with issues before they become problems requiring a rescue response. But focusing on those skills first leaves you without essential knowledge that can help keep you out of those situations in the first place.

A back kick is valuable ... but it's way down on my list of essential skills for the new diver. Rescue training is up near the top of that list. Among other things, it reduces the risk of putting yourself in a "trust me" situation with a more experienced diver who may make assumptions that you're not equipped to deal with.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

This could be my bias, because of all the very poor new divers we see at the BHB....the "Sand Kickers" and kneelers, the ones swimming head up feet down at close to a 45 degree angle pushing an impossible bow wave.....the ones who struggle horribly throughout their dives, blowing a whole 80 cu ft tank in 25 minutes in 12 to 18 feet of water.....these guys are not ready for rescue, unless it is someone rescueing them :D
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone! It looks like I will probably take my CPR/first aid and Rescue before advanced if I can. First order of business of course is to get many more dives in first. I don't doubt that AOW has some value, if even only for the experience of the dives. It simply seems to be of a lower importance in my eyes. I'd much rather know how to rescue a panicked OOA diver than know how to dive to 130'. AOW seems like alot of fun as far as the dives are concerned and I do actually look forward to it.

In the USA, there is CPR and then there is CPR/AED for the Professional Rescuer.

Take this first. Nothing to do with diving, you will get a professional cert (that times out), but you will have been exposed to the real deal.

Next, take rescue and you can really focus on the diving part. Later, take AOW. You will get a lot more out of AOW this way. My AOW course (NAUI) tended to teach to the level of each participant.
 
I have been considering the path which I will follow for my scuba education, I believe that I will complete First aid & CPR/rescue before taking advanced. .....I have flipped through that thin and flimsy volume at my lds and...well it looks pretty pointless. It seems to be all about simply completing some slightly more challenging dives and not really about enhancing skills and knowledge.

You seem to be under the misappreciation that this is an 'Advanced Diving' course, rather than an Advanced Open Water course.

It's merely an extension of the entry-level OW training, that introduces you to some diving concepts that are beyond the simplicity of merely going underwater and coming back up again safely.

I think to an extent they might be thinking of the immediate benefits of advanced (a greater variety of sites to dive). What do you all think? Is one more useful than the other? Is rescue something one should wait on taking? Is advanced more actually a better course than outward appearances?

Rescue is undoubtably a beneficial course for scuba divers. However, it is a big leap from OW to Rescue. The Advanced Open Water course adds some activities and task loading to your diving, which can develop some critical skills. Having exposure to a higher level of task loading, and possessing those extra skills, is an effective preparation for Rescue Diver training.

For instance, the AOW Navigation dive will develop your compass skills effectively and prepare you to conduct underwater search patterns on the Rescue course. Likewise, a search and recovery dive might provide you with a better familiarization with controlling other objects on ascent (in addition to your own buoyancy) and this will help with the rescue skills of raising an unconsious or immobilized diver.

If you choose your instructor well (someone who will exceed the basic requirements of the AOW course) and choose your optional dives well (dives that provide core skill development), then the AOW course can provide a very developmental learning platform.

The AOW course is focused on in-water skill and experience development, so don't judge it by the manual. The theory work is supposed to be 'light'.
 
.........Rescue is undoubtably a beneficial course for scuba divers. However, it is a big leap from OW to Rescue. ................

I agree that it should be.

............. Having exposure to a higher level of task loading, and possessing those extra skills, is an effective preparation for Rescue Diver training...............

I'd prefer a lot of OW diving to a twenty dive OW-->AOW progression...

...........If you choose your instructor well (someone who will exceed the basic requirements of the AOW course) and choose your optional dives well (dives that provide core skill development), then the AOW course can provide a very developmental learning platform................

Total agreement.


I think that this boils down to a "perfect world" vs. "the way it usually is" discussion. Thanks for bringing this up.

OK, how about a mix of perfect world and the way it is:

Surface CPR/AED, OW, PADI AOW, Rescue Diver, NAUI AOW with lots of "just diving" in between?
 
I think that most AOW trainings are total BS. However, some charters won't let you do some dives with them unless you have the AOW card. Essentially somebody with 9-dives under his/her belt would be allowed by a charter to do a blue water deep dive just because of the AOW card.

As far as Rescue goes, it should be very high on the list of must-have, even if you don't want to rescue anybody. Self-rescue techniques are nice to know. Now, I'm going to say something that a lot of experienced divers will disagree with me: I think that one should be somewhat competent with buoyancy control, basic swim/dive techniques, comfortable in water before attempting a Rescue course.

I've seen too many people with a handful of dives under their belts, struggling with just regular diving yet taking the Rescue class and frankly, I doubt that they had learned any rescue techniques at all. They may learn their skill set limitations, but that's about it.

I took my Rescue class with about 100-something dives under my belt, with my own gears, etc. I got a lot out of that class because the instructor was awesome, but because my buddies were also experienced divers. We didn't struggle with diving, but we devoted our attentions and energies towards performing rescue techniques. We also had a lot of what-if scenarios as well, which I wouldn't have known had I gone to the course with; say, 20-dives under my belt.
 
Now, I'm going to say something that a lot of experienced divers will disagree with me: I think that one should be somewhat competent with buoyancy control, basic swim/dive techniques, comfortable in water before attempting a Rescue course.

I won't disagree with that at all ... but then, I think that one should be somewhat competent with buoyancy control, basic swim/dive techniques, and comfortable in the water before being granted an OW certification ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I think that most AOW trainings are total BS. However, some charters won't let you do some dives with them unless you have the AOW card. Essentially somebody with 9-dives under his/her belt would be allowed by a charter to do a blue water deep dive just because of the AOW card.

I keep reading this here, but I've never experienced it. It's been my experience that if I show my Rescue card, I get on any boat I want. I'm not sure if they know you can get Rescue without AOW, or maybe they realize that in most (not all) cases the Rescue card is actually worth more than the AOW.
 
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