Required skills for Open Water

[MarkA]

While it is on the list as required, and I always did it, I hated every single one. It is risky for the student and the instructor from a physiological standpoint just in relation to the ears.
Let alone the lung overexpansion issue.
It's also a leftover from j valves, no SPGs, and lack of proper buddy procedures.
Every skill on the slate in open water makes sense in some way. Except this one.
The teaching slates have all the required skills for open and confined water. You do have some flexibility as to when you do them.
If the operation is not performing all the skills, you have to ask, what other corners are they cutting?

Very interesting.

The people I trained to dive with had stopped CESA being part of the training. I was taught in theory but not done for real. I was told this changed because of the reasons you have said, training causing more issues than it solved.

No argument that if it’s part of the standards it should be completed to the required level of competence.

 

[VikingDives]

I'm looking for a clarification for the standards for SDI Open Water Scuba Diver. Is performance of all listed skills required in open water? Or is it sufficient to perform in confined water only? Specifically, is out of air controlled swimming ascent required in open water?

Thanks in advance!

When I went through my transition course, it was specifically mentioned by my IT that if a student had displayed mastery of a skill in confined water, it was not necessary to have them perform the skill in open water. If you look at the standards, it doesn't specify where the skills are completed.

I'm not a fan of the open water cesa skill, especially in larger classes, but I'd ping HQ in chat and ask them.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I'm not that familiar with SDI Standards. I have seen the slates, but I attributed the omission to SDI "flexibility". I'll follow up with headquarters, but what I am understanding from these responses is that every skill is required to be performed again in open water. Right now, I think the only other one they're missing is oral inflation for neutral buoyancy.

Regarding CESA, do SDI instructors typically use a line to break the ascent if needed?

Thanks, everyone.

Jill, I did. It's risky enough without having to try and control someone who may decide to really bolt on the ascent without one. I'd like to see it specifically done away with in open water and more emphasis placed on gas management (including cylinder matching, rock bottom, etc.) and buddy skills and air sharing.
But now that I'm done with no intentions of teaching again, I won't have to worry about it.
But I will keep my eyes and ears open for the incidents that occur as a result of it and publicize the crap out of them.

 

[VikingDives]

Something that I've found teaching the SDI cesa is that students are a lot less stressed than when they do a padi cesa. Because SDI allows them to stop and take a breath of they run out of breath, I think that takes all the stress out of the skill... It's something I talk about my in the pool and the classroom.

As far as cesa in open water, I wouldn't consider doing one without a line. The scariest moment I've had as an instructor was watching a rescue student start to do a swimming accent while holding his breath. I was able to slow him down and get him to take my reg, but that was an "oh ****" moment for me. There's no way it's take a chance with an ow student in that skill.

 

[tursiops]

Something that I've found teaching the SDI cesa is that students are a lot less stressed than when they do a padi cesa. Because SDI allows them to stop and take a breath of they run out of breath, I think that takes all the stress out of the skill... It's something I talk about my in the pool and the classroom.

Not sure why this is different from PADI. The PADI IM says, regarding CESA, to say in your briefing:
"Resume normal breathing if you stop the ascent, or if they experience any difficulty." Of course, you have to do it over again...you don 't get a PASS if you didn't do the exercise.

 

[VikingDives]

Not sure why this is different from PADI. The PADI IM says, regarding CESA, to say in your briefing:
"Resume normal breathing if you stop the ascent, or if they experience any difficulty." Of course, you have to do it over again...you don 't get a PASS if you didn't do the exercise.

The skill allows them to stop, inhale, and then continue to ascend, unlike the PADI skill.

From the SDI Open Water Manual (emphasis mine):

• There is no single independent emergency ascent scenario. Circumstances may range from one in which a regulator is merely breathing a little hard (resulting in a near-normal ascent) to one in which the diver begins the ascent with little or nothing to breathe and must drop some or all of his weights in order to reach the surface.
• Even though your regulator may not function at depth, as you ascend and the ambient pressure decreases, you may still get one or more partial breaths on the way up.
• And although you may not be “out of air” at depth, your lungs, ironically, may still contain too much air. That air will expand on ascent and could put you at risk of a lung overpressure injury. That’s why, if you can’t breathe in, you still need to be breathing. This means that, when you can’t inhale, you need to be exhaling — but at a controlled rate (exhaling too much can be as risky as not exhaling at all). The best way to ensure you are exhaling at the proper rate is to make a continuous “Ahh” sound.
• If you have maintained neutral buoyancy throughout your dive you should not need to drop any weight to make it to the surface (if anything you’ll need to vent air from your BC during ascent). Nevertheless, you need to be prepared to drop weight —”just in case.”

We’ll assume that, to start, your regulator is breathing hard and your buddy is either nowhere in sight or you simply think your odds of reach the surface are better on your own.

• Again, don’t delay. As soon as you realize your buddy’s alternate air source is not an option start moving toward the surface.
• As you swim start making the “Ahh” sound to exhale at a controlled rate.
• As a precaution either take your weight belt off and hold it close in front of you with your right hand or do the same with one of your BC weight pockets. (This way should it turn out that the only way you can make it to the surface is by dropping weight all you have to do is let go. You won’t waste any time struggling with weight system components when seconds count.)
• You should also locate your deflation mechanism and keep it in your left hand so that you can vent air, as needed, to keep your ascent rate under control.
• Periodically throughout the ascent stop swimming upward and attempt a shallow inhalation. Then resume making a continuous “Ahh” sound and swimming toward the surface.
• If for any reason you feel you cannot make it to the surface simply by swimming upward drop your weight (if you have just a single weight pocket in hand get ready to drop the second once the first is gone). Be aware that this will lead to a dangerously rapid ascent as you approach the surface. To slow yourself down spread your arms and legs and flare backwards.
• When you reach the surface remember that you will most likely have to inflate your BC orally. If everything is under control you can also put your weight belt or weight system pocket(s) back in place.

 

[Jill from Phoenix]

So, I called Headquarters, spoke with the training department, and CESA is not a required skill for open water.

They started off with their opinion that CESA is an old fashioned skill, but sticks around due to tradition.

Interestingly, there is great flexibility on which environment the skills are conducted and the instructor makes a judgement call on what is appropriate. It is highly suggested to introduce skills in confined water, but not required, especially if the pool depth or configuration is not appropriate to practice the skill. And vice versa, it is suggested to repeat in open water, but not required if performance can be judged in confined water.

There isn't a list of skills to introduce in confined water or skills to be repeated in open water, only a list of skills that must have performance evaluated in either environment as deemed appropriate by the instructor.

 

[BBSB]

Here are the SDI OW requirements.

https://www.tdisdi.com/wp-content/uploads/files/sandp/currentYear/SDI/part%202/pdf/individual/SDI%20Diver%20Standards_07_Open_Water_Scuba_Diver.pdf

Yes, a CESA is required in open water. Obviously you’re concerned about this skill. What has you worried?

This link was super helpful. I have been worried if my open water was lacking compared to the other local shops. Seems we’re skipping a needed outcomes so I’m defiantly going to ask my dive shop about it though I m dreading doing.

 

[BBSB]

Here are the SDI OW requirements.

https://www.tdisdi.com/wp-content/uploads/files/sandp/currentYear/SDI/part%202/pdf/individual/SDI%20Diver%20Standards_07_Open_Water_Scuba_Diver.pdf

Yes, a CESA is required in open water. Obviously you’re concerned about this skill. What has you worried?

This link was super helpful. I have been worried if my open water was lacking compared to the other local shops. Seems we’re skipping a few needed outcomes so I’m defiantly going to ask my dive shop about them. Carefully ask that is lol…

 

[VikingDives]

This link was super helpful. I have been worried if my open water was lacking compared to the other local shops. Seems we’re skipping a needed outcomes so I’m defiantly going to ask my dive shop about it though I m dreading doing.

The information in this thread is correct. You need to have been taught the emergency swimming accent, but it is the instructor's discretion as to what skills you must perform in open water.

Many SDI instructors do not do require students to perform that skill in open water. I generally don't. You can go to tdi/sdi and talk with someone from HQ during chat. I'd also say that if you feel like you need more work on that skill and you shouldn't have been certified, a discussion with the shop would be prudent.