Removing items from the USS Oriskany (interesting dilemma)

[King Kong Matt]

I would like to say that I have read all of the comments and concerns from eveyone on this board who have written regarding this matter and it is almost impossible to respond directly to each and every one, but the main difference is the fact that unlike most on this board, I am a diving professional and this is my business, not just a occasional activity. This is what I do for a living and as such it is impossible to please all of the people all of the time. I continually discourage people to take things from the reefs, shoot illegal fish, dive after drinking the night before, drink after diving period, smoke cigarettes, lie, cheat, steal... We are all adults, or at least I assume most of us are on this board because I don't know the ages of all writers, and as such everyone is going to do whatever they choose regardless of my recommendations or suggestions. The only one's who I can have direct control over their actions are the Instructor candidates who if they don't listen and respond with correction of their actions then we simply don't certify them as instructors and let them into the diving mainstream. Even the ones who give lip service to what is right only to go on and do what is wrong eventually, again, only they are responsible for their own actions.
As a professional and especially, as a dive professional I am not going to be dragged into a mud slinging match with my peers or anyone else for that matter. I will summarize with one statement. I am glad that I do business the way that I do, and that they do business the way that they do. We have been successful over the years and are here committed to those divers who wish for a safe and enjoyable experience whethor on the Oriskany or anywhere else. As to the question of did I allow it? As stated previously... it is not a matter of allowing someone to do what they are going to do regardless. Florida law prohibits smoking in any common areas where there are smokers and non-smokers and the head on our boat is off limits, but on most trips where smokers are on board, despite our directly addressing this fact in our pre-trip briefing, smokers continually go into the head and do thier thing. Do you guys think we can't smell it? Should I throw these individuals overboard? Of course not. You yourself would not appreciate being challenged or confronted, especially openly or publicly. I try to treat eveyone with fairness and to provide for their personal enjoyment. I am not going to be an "***" to anyone just because someone dosn't like what they choose to do otherwise, you would have to be an *** to eveyone because noone does everything just the way any of us would like it. Now, if you violate your computer and I know about it, then obviously... I'm not going to allow you to kill yourself or injure yourself because of your ignorance or lack of knowledge or training. Sometimes, I have to be an *** and not let people dive because their ignorance will result in severe consiquences and I have been chastised for this also over the years, but this is the difference between a professional and someone who has taken a basic class and never even learned how the tables work, let alone why they shouldn't dive with a violated computer.
This subject has already consumed more time and in the words of "Sasquatch"... the proverbial horse has litterally been beaten to death. Due to rain and rough seas, we are not diving today, but time is better spent taking all of you who wish to continue to dive the Mighty "O" or any other of our reefs to an enjoyable experience where you will not be openly embarrased or chastised by someone you are paying to have a good time with regardless of if your actions are simple mistakes or outright stupid behavior. My job is to keep you safe, bring you back, and help you to have an enjoyable dive. The rest is up to you.

From the Responsible diver:
Your trianing can be excellent, but your training is not responsible for you.
Your equipment can be excellent, but your equipment is not responsible for you.
Your dive buddy can be excellent, but your dive buddy is not responsible for you.
You are responsible for you... you should be excellent.

Knowing that the diver in question broke the law, will you allow that diver back on your boat? You claim you can't always control what others do, but here is a very clear opportunity for you not to be party to a violation of the law.

Will you?

 

[bisonduquebec]

That is correct. If you have the proper fishing license. The "rusted old bolt" is the property of the State of Florida and not yours.
Just a rhetorical question here... Why is this concept of property so hard to get through to some folks? The Oriskany doesn't belong to divers and fishermen - it belongs to the State. The State says "don't take any pieces off my ship." Respect the owner's property.
Pretty simple concept to me.
IXΘYΣ

Are you telling me I am not allowed to cut a Christmas tree in state parks? Wow. I am stunned. The excuses people will find is always astonishing.

 

[scubaaaronh]

I have a question for captain Tim. I can uderstand that you let him back on the boat with the things he stole from the state of florida. But did you report him to proper authorities when you reached land and were able to get to a telephone in a reasonable amount of time. Or call it on on your marine radio to the local sheriff or DNR who then could have notified the proper authorities to handle the case. Did you try to contact anyone about it in a law enforcement position?

 

[ShoalDiverSA]

...As to the question of did I allow it? As stated previously... it is not a matter of allowing someone to do what they are going to do regardless. ...

You are the Captain of the boat. You set the standard in terms of which behaviour is acceptable for the divers utilising your service.

If you do not deem their behaviour acceptable, you should take action to rectify their behaviour.

I have seen Skippers and DMs down here laying down the law more times than I can remember individually (due to horse-play, interfering with other divers, keeping shells, etc). No-one, other than the offender, batted an eyelid. If it is professionally handled, you will gain more respect from your clients (and potential clients). If you keep quiet out of some misplaced respect for the person or fear of being seen as a "party-pooper", then you cannot complain when members of the diving community are upset about your inaction.

With respect,

Andrew

 

[scubaaaronh]

Are you telling me I am not allowed to cut a Christmas tree in state parks? Wow. I am stunned. The excuses people will find is always astonishing.

Nevermind

 

[vikingdiving]

Additionally, I would like to ad to the discussion I am contacting the appropriate authorities to include Robert Turpin, the manager with Escambia County who owns the reef and Harry White, the PAO for NASP. I would love for an official policy to be made to not remove anything from the reef or draw your graffiti on the reef, but honestly... I don't know if we really want government agencies starting to get their hands into the regulation of dive activities. Typically, they cause more harm than good when they start making policies and laws. This is why the dive industry has fought so diligently over the years to maintain self regulated, but I would like to see it made, if unofficially, a standing policy to not take anything from the wreck. We are including this into our dive briefings effective immediately, and I intend to bring up the subject at the next meeting of the Gulf Coast Dive Counsel, but there is no way to regulate all the private boats out there who will continue to take their 20 foot boat 23 NM offshore and dive this wreck unsupervised.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have been on a number of dive boats where divers were preparing to do something that is not allowed in that area. In some cases, the DM had the same attitude as Captain Tim--the customer is always right, even when illegal. I once saw a DM in Cozumel pretend not to notice as two divers attached their collection bags as they prepared to dive protected waters.

On the other hand, I have also seen DM's confront the people immediately, in a friendly and professional but decidedly firm manner. I have never seen a problem arise.

In the case of the people putting on the collection bags in Cozumel, when I saw the DM was not going to say anything, I told them that collecting was not allowed. They said they did not realize that, thanked me, and put the bags away. No big deal. No loss of customers for the operator.

Captain Tim says that different people dive wrecks for different reasons, and it is not his place to say anything to those who do it for illegal reasons. In other words, he has declared that if you are looking for an operator that will allow you to violate the law, he's your man. Bring your dive dollars and climb on board.

Another approach would be to say that there are plenty of operators who will take you to the wreck, and there are plenty of people who want to dive it--my operation will serve those who wish to do it legally and ethically. If you want to loot, you will have to use another operator.

When I finally get down to dive the O, I will try to select an operator that has that attitude. I don't know who that is right now, but I know one to avoid.

 

[King Kong Matt]

This is why the dive industry has fought so diligently over the years to maintain self regulated, but I would like to see it made, if unofficially, a standing policy to not take anything from the wreck.

Are you serious? You would like to see a policy implemented that you yourself don't enforce on a boat over which you have exclusive control?

Am I reading this correctly? Do I need more coffee this morning?

 

[mikerault]

The first step would be for the regulating body to enforce the existing laws and fine all those dive shops openly displaying objects stolen from the Oriskany, an unenforced law is no law.

From the various laws quoted in the postings it seems pretty clear, it is illegal to remove items from the Oriskany, period. If you allowed it Tim, you are in violation of the law.

As to should you throw the offenders overboards for smoking in the head, no, but you can ban them from the boat in the future for breaking your rules. If you say one thing and then allow others to do another, how will they obey you in anything?

Mike

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't know if we really want government agencies starting to get their hands into the regulation of dive activities. Typically, they cause more harm than good when they start making policies and laws. This is why the dive industry has fought so diligently over the years to maintain self regulated, but I would like to see it made, if unofficially, a standing policy to not take anything from the wreck. .

That is exactly the point. If the dive industry does not police itself, someone else will step in and do it. That means it is up to YOU to do the policing. If you turn your back on things like this, then you are inviting someone else to come on board and do the policing.