Removing items from the USS Oriskany (interesting dilemma)

[CIBDiving]

I spoke with Captain Tim on the phone earlier. He called me, and is a little pissed at the whole thing. He's trying to get on the board to explain his side but is having technical trouble. But there's no doubt whatsoever Sleppy took the panel.

I read "technical trouble" as 'trying to come up with a good lie'.
It doesn't matter now what he says, I would need Proof he's telling the truth, otherwise it's a CYA lie.

 

[vikingdiving]

I have finally gotten on your group as to be able to dispell some of the false accusations and misinformation that many within your discussions seem to be intent at spreading. First off, I have received several e-mails from members of this group accusing me of pirating or even endorsing such on the USS Oriskany. Obviously, almost all of these messages come from people who know nothing about either me or the situation in question so I am here to clarify and to dispell the accusations. Any of you who wish to contact me personally, I would encourage such instead of hiding behind the obscurity of the computer.

I have been diving Pensacola since 1976 and have fought dilligently to protect and preserve our reefs from the day I began diving. There have been many meetings and discussions with public officials over the years where I have found only myself there to defend our marine resources and argue protection of such with public officials. To give a little background on myself and my official stand... I served this country as a Mission Planner for the US Air Force and was an Air Commando with Special Opps dating all the way back to the Cold War. I reported weekly to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and have been involved in more missions in the defense of the country than many of you have even known about. I started in the dive industry in 1992 and currently have the oldest dive charter operation in Pensacola. Only SCUBA Shack has been here longer than I, and I remeber when they left Skippers and started their shop first hand. I have dove and worked to promote and protect our marine resources with organizations to include but not limited to The Cousteau Society and the Coral Reef Foundation. I am an active officer in the United States Merchant Marine and hold a rating of 100 GT Master. I have worked and operated everything from commercial dive utility boats to live aboards to my current dive boat the "Viking". I have served as the Director of the largest Dive Training Operation in the country as the Director of the University of Florida Academic Dive Training Program and have certified more instructors than most instructors have certified divers. My personal dive vita could go on and on, but hopefully you all get the picture.

As a dive operator, and ships captain my responsibility is to the safety and security of all passengers aboard my vessel. Of course, there is no way that anyone can police the activities of every diver on board but this is the primary reason that I have chose to stay with the "Viking" to take divers to the Oriskany instead of a cattle boat where everything goes on without anyone having any knowledge... to include loosing divers in currents, and divers violating their dive computers only to tie them off under the boat to avoid missing the second dive. Mr. Sleppy and I have had discussions about the removal of such items from the wreck in an appropriate and professional manner as I am sure any of you would appreciate having the same done with you if you where in a similar situation... caught doing something stupid that you knew that you shouldn't be or where previously briefed against. You see, I am the proud single father of two wonderful children the most recent of which... my daughter Brittany who was divemastering that day... has just gotten Congressional appointment to the US Merchant Marine Academy and this past weekend reported to Kings Point.

Admonishment of anyone in a public open forem is simply inappropriate. Any adult should know this if they have any successful managment training or experience.
Rich Sleppy, while I don't agree with his taking of these things from the wreck, happens to be one of the most responsible divers and instructors that I have had on our boat in a while. Unfortunately, some divers seak sovieniers, some divers seak knowledge, some thrills... I have seen it all aboard my boat, but again, my job is to educate to the best of my abilities and to keep eveyone safe. With regard to our "pirating" the reef. This is the most inappropriate accusation of all regarding me, my daughter or my operation. The true culprits can be seen at any of the local dive shops where not only Oriskany items are proudly displayed but almost everything of any interest from every dive site in Pensacola. The only things I have displayed are pieces of Calypso given to me by Captain Cousteau and Sean-Michel himself. As for harming the wreck for others to enjoy... talk to the cattle boats who take divers out and not only rape and pillage the wreck but write every sort of graphitti you can imagine all over the wreck. It is starting to look like something in Brooklin NY. As for criminal acts on the wreck. Someone even placed the flag of the country I fought to defend on the wreck with their own advertisement written all over it. Last time I checked... it was a Federal offense to deface the Flag of the United States of America or to display it in any inappropriate manner. Others have placed submerged obstructions on the wreck just below the surface calling them "Mooring Balls", which is in direct violation of USCG regulations. Why do you think they sank it in 212 feet of water in the first place. Nothing is supposed to be within 60 feet of the surface...

Now, normally I would just keep silent and allow idiots to show their ignorance because they usually only embarrase themselves in the process but when certain individuals started writing me personal ananomus e-mails attacking my personal integrity and professionalism and encouraging others to do the same, I had to draw the line. I will continue to take divers safely to the Oriskany and other dive locations in Pensacola as I have done for the past 14 years and I will be here long after all those profit seekers who have only come into town in the past two years are gone by the wayside. I will continue working with Military Public Affairs, as I have for the past 8 years trying to provide for my fellow comrads in arms who continue to serve our nation and remain the ambassador for Pensacola reefs that I have tried diligently to do since I began diving. I would only hope that those of you who obviously know nothing about me or my operation... or the truth for that matter, would cease with the childishness of spreading lies and threats.

In closing... someone who actually knows is someone who has been there himself and seen first hand our operation. My special thanks to Don Janni who spoke up for us and tried to clarify the truth, and additionally, "Shame" on those of you who spoke or responded out of ignorance.

Capt. Tim Thorsen

 

[PenguinAdLitem]

Well, that was not very satisfying. As I understand it, Cap't. Tim has just entered a forum where emotions are clearly running high and folks are obviously incensed by a perceived wrongdoing, and told us we should all be ashamed for thinking he was involved.

But he was involved. While it's true that sometimes, particularly when behavior is not obvious to others and amounts to a personal problem, it is an appropriate pedagogical or management technique to make any rebuke private, that certainly does not amount to a general rule. When someone does something amazingly, and publically, stupid, the solution is not to explain that to them in private. The solution is to publically communicate that their stupidity is not tolerable. That way, the public also benefits from the lesson.

In any event, it has been reported that Cap't Tim actually encouraged the behavior, and that this person secured not one, but _two_ artifacts on two separate dives. He reports that he brought tools, including a mallet, chisel, and crowbar. How does one slip into the water with those unnoticed? How does one stow a foot-and-a-half of instrument panel without being observed?

Finally, Cap't Tim says he gave Sleppy a private talking-to... but Sleppy says he was still allowed to book another dive. Some education!

Captain, I respect the work you have done, your ample credentials, and the service you have given to this country and to diving. This looks a lot like a screw-up, though, and your response does not look adequate. If Sleppy's account of events is incorrect or incomplete, by all means set us straight with the accurate details. But any adult should know, if they have any successful public relations training or experience, that playing the victim and refusing to acknowledge your involvement in an emotionally charged wrong-doing will lead to more suspicion and remonstration, not less.

 

[Diver Dennis]

Thank you for replying Capt. Thorsen.

So you are telling us the stealing of items from the Oriskany is wide spread and that other dive shops are displaying the stolen items? You also said that there is quite a bit of graffiti on the wreck as well now.

You did say that Mr, Sleppy did take the item in question from the wreck and you did know about it. By letting him do this are you not being a bit hypocritical considering that normally you are a vigilant reef supporter? Frankly, Mr. Sleppy brought this on himself and you by bragging about this on a public board, thereby opening the door for us to discuss it. The description of "one of the most responsible divers and instuctors I have had on our boat in a while" does not seem to apply to someone who is removing items and is careless enough to brag about it in a public forum.

You point out that all the cattle boats are doing worse. We should have a discussion about them here on the board. So are you saying that what happened is OK because everyone else is doing it? Let's get all the dive Ops out on the table so we are not just pointing the finger at you, although any operation condoning removal of items by not stopping it is guilty in my opinion.

Please let me know if anything I've stated is wrong, I might have mis-read something but basically the story of Mr. Sleppy taking the items was true and you had discussions with him about the removal of of such items. You did not tell him he could not do it obviously, so you were condoning it or at least going along with it.

I will continue working with Military Public Affairs, as I have for the past 8 years trying to provide for my fellow comrads in arms who continue to serve our nation and remain the ambassador for Pensacola reefs that I have tried diligently to do since I began diving.

Well, I do not know you sir but it seems to me that this statement rings hollow when you seem to be part of the problem allowing things to be taken by divers on your boat.

 

[Sasquatch]

A tempest in a teapot in my opinion. I give Captain Thorsen due credit for signing on to SB to stand up and clearly state his position. We've established throughout this thread that sometimes people do thoughtless things. The description of the graffiti and the flag/ad and mooring balls was irritating to read.

I think this horse may have been terminally beaten at this point and don't see any advantage to continued debate.

A lot of people are idiots. Let's try not to join them.

Sea ya!

 

[Diver Dennis]

We can do something Sasquatch and it is being done here. Obviously the authorities are doing nothing so unless someone steps up this will continue.

 

[Hammerhead]

Undergarments in a constricted and compressed state? ("panties in a wad...")
.......checking........

Nope, mine are right where they should be. However, JasonB, that does not mean this is not a concern for the diving community. That word...community...implies a group of people who co-exist together, respect certain rights, agree to certain moral codes, and abide by the precepts of fair and responsible behavior. If one should think that taking items from a governed site that was placed by and is being maintained for the benefit of ALL, then they are violating the very definition of "community". It is very fitting that the other members of said community should be alarmed, repulsed, angry, indignant, and disgusted by theives of what should be communal property (if it were allowed to stay in its proper place). After all, to disregard these ideas means a person could hack down a redwood, plough roads through pristine desert, carve out archaelogical symbols from Anasazi land, and plunder just about any of the state and national parks they should choose. If taking these items is not in your definition of "wrong", please make sure your undergarments are straight and dive in YOUR back yard...not mine.

And that, ladies and gentlemen is probably the most eloquent and reasoned put down I've ever read on SB.

Not only that, he's hit the nail right on the head. Nice one, Guba.

 

[Diver Dennis]

When my wife and I dove the Oriskany we went with Viking diving, Tim Thorsen and his Daughter, Brittany. We really liked Tim and his Daugher and the whole experience of diving with them. After the first dive Tim asked me if I'd seen the chrome plated telephone in the small room on the back side of the control room and I said no. On the next dive he took us there so we could see it. That was kind of cool you know.

It really disappoints me that Tim would suggest to a low-life scavenger that he take the phone. It's actually hard to believe he would suggest it. The guy is probably telling a bald face lie. Low-life's do that you know.

Either way, I think scavengers like that are real low life's and deserve jail if caught.

I'm quoting you Mr. Janni because Capt. Thorsen brought your post up. I did not want your words to be twisted.

Capt. Thorsen, as you can read in Mr. Janni's post, he did say that they had a very good dive with you but in no way condones the taking of items from the ship. You can also see that he has a much different opinion of Mr. Sleppy than you.

 

[BarryNL]

Moreover, my understanding of the tone of the two books indicates that both authors see nothing wrong with this. Bernie Chowdhury (The Last Dive) calls the obsession with getting whatever you can "Artifact Fever," and he does not mind admitting that he has it, too. Parts of Shadow Divers describe the competition between rival charter companies and dive clubs to get to these artifacts and take them before someone else can get them.

Yeah, I really don't get this. I can understand that if you dive the Doria you might want to take a plate or two for your mantelpiece, but why the hell would you want a whole shedfull of the stuff? Some of these guys now seem to have boxes full of china tucked away in their garages, which will probably stay there now till they die and their relatives send it to the local dump.

It's just pure greed! Why not just take what you need as a souvenir and leave the rest there for the next divers?

 

[tracy_from_oz]

I have read your post 3 x captain Tim and have come to the conclusion of how very republican of you.

Congratulation's to you sir as you have stirred patriotic emotions and not answered the question at all, but told us a complete history of things we dont need to know to deflect us from the one question we would like to be answered. And it comes down to the question of, did you allow divers to board your vessel after diving the wreck with items they had taken from the mighty O?
That is the simplicity of it all in black and white and it is a straight yes or no answer, as adults are taught to take responsibility for their actions.
If you sat by and allowed this to happen, it is also your fault as well, and a part of the theft of a national treasure which seems to cheapen how much you say you have fought for your country, obviolsuy not enough to respect it or its heritage.

I give you credit however for coming onto the baord and some what addressing the questions the diving public has in regards to this matter.


P.s. no offence to any republicans on the board. Sorry if I offended, my complete apologies