Removing items from the USS Oriskany (interesting dilemma)

[CIBDiving]

I was right - a CYA BS story all the way.

 

[bisonduquebec]

VikingDiving, sorry but you are not getting my sympathies. Comparing stealing with smoking is absurd. Anyway, I guess you could get a ticket for letting people smoke on board. That is your choice and risk to take. As for the stealing part, I guess you became an accomplice since you accepted the goods on board and did not report it to authorities.

At this point, I whish that you Cpt Tim, Mr. Rich and all other dive shop that dare show the artifacts taken from the Oriskany are taken to justice and pay your du. It is simple. You break the law, you pay for it.

 

[scubaaaronh]

. That is your choice and risk to take. As for the stealing part, I guess you became an accomplice since you accepted the goods on board and did not report it to authorities.

.

Exact Point i was trying to get to, just wanted an answer to my question if he contacted authorites in a reasonable amout of time and days isn't a reasonable amount of time. I am sure the marina had a phone.

 

[IXΘYΣ]

Are you telling me I am not allowed to cut a Christmas tree in state parks? Wow. I am stunned. The excuses people will find is always astonishing.

No, what I am telling you is that a property owner has the right to tell you what you may or may not do with or on their property. In the case of the Oriskany the property owner (the State of Florida) has *not* given permission to take anything off the site other than the permitted harvesting of legal fish.
If your State allows the harvest of Christmas trees from State parks then that's allowed; if it doesn't it isn't. This really isn't that difficult a concept to comprehend...
Capice?
IXΘYΣ

 

[ShoalDiverSA]

...Additionally, I would like to ad to the discussion I am contacting the appropriate authorities ... I would love for an official policy to be made to not remove anything from the reef or draw your graffiti on the reef, but honestly...

Are you serious? You would like to see a policy implemented that you yourself don't enforce on a boat over which you have exclusive control?...

Well said.

Cheers,

Andrew

 

[mike_s]

Additionally, I would like to ad to the discussion I am contacting the appropriate authorities to include Robert Turpin, the manager with Escambia County who owns the reef and Harry White, the PAO for NASP.

Why didn't you do this two weeks ago after it happened? why all the sudden a conscious?

Are you contacting them to turn yourself in? or the diver? or what?

I would love for an official policy to be made to not remove anything from the reef or draw your graffiti on the reef, but honestly... I don't know if we really want government agencies starting to get their hands into the regulation of dive activities.

Actually, this already exists. The FWC page on diving the Oriskany says removing items is illegal.

We are including this into our dive briefings effective immediately,

why did you wait until now for this?


You've also never answered the simple question of why you allowed him to keep this large control panel, didn't make him take it back down (which unless screwed back in I agree would have been useless because then someone else would have taken it), why you didn't brief him then about not ripping off further items.

It also sounds like from Rich Sleep's post that you even gave him directions to the 2nd item? why would he lie about this?


Several people have asked a few simple questions, which you have avoided to answer.

I think most folks here would be oK with you if you just said that "you made a mistake and poor judgement call and that it won't happen again". But I don't know if they'll accept that now....

 

[vikingdiving]

Obviously, some people just don't get the point of this discussion, or our operation and some of the respondents are intent on distorting the truth regardless of my response. I will try to put it in simple terms.
We do not endorse the removal of items from any reefs.
We will not tolerate illegal actions on our boat period. (I have not verified that taking anything from the reef is illegal or not at this point, thus the attempt to contact Escambia County and NASP PAO) Hopefully, not otherwise evey dive shop in Pensacola will be shut down, or rather... hopefully so because I will have more business being the only one left to take divers out. Probably should have left that out because someone will distort the humor intended but if they don't get it then so be it.
We will continue to provide for the safety of all aboard and to try to educate those as to what should and should not be done during their dives.
We will treat eveyone firmly and professionally whenever we observe potential problems and we will continue to encourage eveyone to continue to be responsible divers.

 

[King Kong Matt]

We do not endorse the removal of items from any reefs.
We will not tolerate illegal actions on our boat period. (I have not verified that taking anything from the reef is illegal or not at this point, thus the attempt to contact Escambia County and NASP PAO).

Hang on folks, the goal posts appear to be shifting once again.

Now your claim is that you are/were not aware that removal of artifacts from the site is against the law, but that you would have prevented it had you known?

OK, so since we are trying to simplify, let me re-ask you a question that you seem to refuse to want to answer. When the state calls you back and tells you what the rest of the diving world already knows (which is that the Oriskany is state property and that removal of artifacts is illegal), WILL YOU ALLOW THE DIVER IN QUESTION BACK ABOARD YOUR BOAT, KNOWING THAT HE BROKE THE LAW?

 

[BiggDawg]

the main difference is the fact that unlike most on this board, I am a diving professional and this is my business, not just a occasional activity. This is what I do for a living and as such it is impossible to please all of the people all of the time.

Careful making assumptions, there. Maybe you ought to check the profiles of those who have posted regarding this matter. More dive professionals involved in this discussion than just you.

I will summarize with one statement. I am glad that I do business the way that I do, and that they do business the way that they do.

Would you also add, then, "Those who don't like the way [you] do business can just take their business elsewhere?"

As stated previously... it is not a matter of allowing someone to do what they are going to do regardless. Florida law prohibits smoking in any common areas where there are smokers and non-smokers and the head on our boat is off limits, but on most trips where smokers are on board, despite our directly addressing this fact in our pre-trip briefing, smokers continually go into the head and do thier thing. Do you guys think we can't smell it? Should I throw these individuals overboard? Of course not.

No, that would be unlawful also, not to mention bad for business (though I have, and will continue to throw people out of my house for violating house rules).
I'm not sure I understand. You allow people to violate house rules, to break the law, and actually to damage your boat and reputation by smoking in the head without interceding? Myself, I would take the cigarettes (or whatever), and politely request they stop.
ONCE.
After that, those that don't like it can take their business elsewhere.

The only one's who I can have direct control over their actions are the Instructor candidates who if they don't listen and respond with correction of their actions then we simply don't certify them as instructors and let them into the diving mainstream.

Aren't you both the captain and the owner of the boat? If you have no control over the passengers, then who does?

You yourself would not appreciate being challenged or confronted, especially openly or publicly.

No, I would not. But if I was Breaking the Law, if I was Vandalizing Public Property, I would expect to be challenged and confronted. And, frankly, I would expect that from some one in authority (i.e., the Captain?) of the service that was facilitating my violations.

I try to treat eveyone with fairness and to provide for their personal enjoyment.

I appreciate that. Then, how come you haven't treated fairly all of the rest of the dive population who have not yet seen the wonders of the "O"?

Now, if you violate your computer and I know about it, then obviously... I'm not going to allow you to kill yourself or injure yourself because of your ignorance or lack of knowledge or training. Sometimes, I have to be an *** and not let people dive because their ignorance will result in severe consiquences and I have been chastised for this also over the years, but this is the difference between a professional and someone who has taken a basic class and never even learned how the tables work, let alone why they shouldn't dive with a violated computer.

Why not? Isn't this just my "personal responsibility" also?
Or is it just that for this you could get sued? Ah, so THAT's the difference ...
Don't you realize that, if you don't intervene in this violation of the law you could be charged as an accessory?
Don't you see how the diving community in general, as opposed to a few shortsighted and selfish individuals, views this activity? Frankly, this is going to be bad for business.
Sued? Charged in a crime? Isn't this your personal and professional responsibility?

My job is to keep you safe, bring you back, and help you to have an enjoyable dive. The rest is up to you.

I am not having a good time if some one is smoking near me. I am not safe if people are breaking rules, and laws, aboard your boat. You are not doing the job as you have defined it.
"Bring me back?" You have to get me there, first. I now live within a few hours of Pensacola, and am planning to visit regularly. Thanks for letting me know whom to patronize, or not. Don't you get it? This is going to be bad for business! Quit defending it, and start setting the example. You have the benefit here of a free marketing focus group, but you are not listening.

"Hey, I didn't know" and "Hey, every one else is doing it" are just cop-outs. You knew. And, if every one else in town really IS doing it, then, frankly, every one else ought to be fined, as well.
I think I see a way that the State of Florida can raise funds to support the reef program...

 

[abamick]

WILL YOU ALLOW THE DIVER IN QUESTION BACK ABOARD YOUR BOAT, KNOWING THAT HE BROKE THE LAW?

This is the question that everyone wants answered, Captain. Please answer it this time. Knowing that the diver broke the law not once, but twice, will you let him back on your boat?