Regulator service: acceptable treatment?

[ams511]

So is this acceptable standard practice? I view this as taking my car in for an oil change and getting it back with a new set of tires or brakes that I didn't ask for. Am I off-base?

In my experience it is standard practice. I also get annoyed at it, especially when they want to charge $10 for a mouthpiece I can buy for $2 at DGX.

---------- Post added March 30th, 2014 at 02:28 PM ----------

I cringe at the idea of $15 for "extra cleaning" unless that was discussed up front.

I remember a post from a tech that charged extra cleaning because someone vomited in the regulator and did not rinse it before bringing it in for service.

 

[vondo]

I remember a post from a tech that charged extra cleaning because someone vomited in the regulator and did not rinse it before bringing it in for service.

Few would quibble with that, I think! In my case, it was an extra 15 minutes presumably to remove corrosion in the first stage accumulated from around 100 saltwater dives. It seems to be a given for me, no matter how careful I try to be about getting dust cap on the reg.

 

[redacted]

Few would quibble with that, I think! In my case, it was an extra 15 minutes presumably to remove corrosion in the first stage accumulated from around 100 saltwater dives. It seems to be a given for me, no matter how careful I try to be about getting dust cap on the reg.

If it were not for a little corrosion now and then, techs wouldn't even need US cleaners. A good degreasing and a trip through the US cleaner should be part of the basic service charge. Now, if he worked for an extra 30 minutes to overcome a connection that had seized with deposits and corrosion, then I might understand an up-charge. I think I would have my doubts about your shop.

 

[Colliam7]

I just got back my regs from my LDS for their annual service. In addition to the usual service kits, labor charges, and $15 for "extra cleaning" two parts were replaced on my setup without my knowledge or consent: my BC hose and a mouthpiece. Total charge for the two parts was about $40.

I wasn't contacted prior to doing this, no notice on the service notes was given as to what was "wrong" with things (I could spot a few pin-hole sized holes on the mouthpiece). I made them take the mouthpiece off as it wasn't exactly what I would buy myself.

So is this acceptable standard practice? I view this as taking my car in for an oil change and getting it back with a new set of tires or brakes that I didn't ask for. Am I off-base?

It IS NOT 'standard practice'. But, in fairness to the LDS, there are often two sides to every story, and we only have yours. A competent LDS will have you sign some form of a service agreement when a piece of equipment is brought in for service. You do need to read these agreements, to be sure what you have agreed to - that may include the LDS repairing / replacing parts as needed to bring the equipment up to some acceptable 'service standard'. Did you sign such an agreement? What did it say about the latitude given the LDS?

In my environment, we would ordinarily call a customer before replacing a hose. Frankly, we would call before replacing the mouthpiece. Although more than a few customers bring me regs with mouthpieces that I wouldn't 'be caught dead' breathing from, I won't replace them without speaking to the customer - UNLESS the piece is clearly torn, chewed through or otherwise unserviceable. Even then, I will call to find out what they want installed, before doing anything. I personally prefer Apeks Comfo-Bites, and think every reg should have them. But, that isn't 'standard practice' either (even if I am convinced I am right. )

As for the cleaning, it may well have been necessary. I see too many regs brought in that are in absolutely crappy condition - the customer apparently didn't bother to take care to rinse them appropriately after (multiple) dives, and by the time the regs come in for service, they are in horrible shape - I won't work on regs that are shedding various salt powders on the bench. BUT, I will still call the customer first and tell them that the cleaning is needed - IF they want me to service the reg. As an aside, I also charge more than $15 for cleaning them - $25 at least. You want me to clean up after you, you can pay for the privilege.

What your LDS did is simply bad business. I would not, personally, patronize them, given your description of your experience. As I said,there may be another side to the story, however.

 

[ams511]

As for the cleaning, it may well have been necessary. I see too many regs brought in that are in absolutely crappy condition - the customer apparently didn't bother to take care to rinse them appropriately after (multiple) dives, and by the time the regs come in for service, they are in horrible shape - I won't work on regs that are shedding various salt powders on the bench. BUT, I will still call the customer first and tell them that the cleaning is needed - IF they want me to service the reg. As an aside, I also charge more than $15 for cleaning them - $25 at least. You want me to clean up after you, you can pay for the privilege.

Don't laugh, but I bought this for fun off eBay.

I primarily wanted the knob but figured some of the other parts may come in handy. As you can expect the knob was frozen in the barrel. However a short soak in vinegar and a quick trip to the ultra sonic and the knob was free. I could disassemble the air barrel and put the parts in the ultra sonic separately except for the orifice which would not come free. It may have been my own inexperience but I needed to freeze the barrel to pop out the orifice. While it sounds like a lot it wasn't because I was doing other things at the time. I am not sure where your extra time is coming from.

 

[Colliam7]

While it sounds like a lot it wasn't because I was doing other things at the time. I am not sure where your extra time is coming from.

I didn't say I was charging for 'extra time', did I? Nor did I say it was time consuming. And, you can do what you want with your extra time. I buy plenty of crap on eBay and elsewhere, and clean it up and make it serviceable. Very serviceable, and then sell it. And, I get it cheap because the owner is too lazy, too clueless, or too cheap to take care of their gear.

But, if a diver wants me to clean up after them, they can pay me for that privilege. Otherwise, ams511, you are welcome to clean the gear for them, while you are doing other things, BEFORE they bring it to me for service.

 

[flots am]

I wasn't contacted prior to doing this, no notice on the service notes was given as to what was "wrong" with things (I could spot a few pin-hole sized holes on the mouthpiece). I made them take the mouthpiece off as it wasn't exactly what I would buy myself.

Last year I told the intake-clerk specifically not to replace the HP transmitter battery, but that was done as well. I flat out refused to pay for that; they declined to take their new one back.

So is this acceptable standard practice? I view this as taking my car in for an oil change and getting it back with a new set of tires or brakes that I didn't ask for. Am I off-base?

Yeah, at least partially. Either that or you need a new shop.

Changing a leaky hose when the regs come in for service isn't exactly "selling you new tires when you came in for an oil change".

The mouthpiece might have been unnecessary. It has to come off for service and sometimes doesn't survive being reattached.

The battery depends on whether it needed a new battery or not. Some places just fix stuff that they see needs fixing.

OTOH, they could have just been selling you parts.

I wouldn't even consider complaining if the shop replaced a dead battery and leaky hose for me. It just saves me from finding out during the next dive.

So you have a choice between believing they're looking out for your best interests, in which case a "thank you" to the service guy is in order, or you believe they're just trying to sell you stuff you don't need in which case, you should probably never go back.

 

[ams511]

I didn't say I was charging for 'extra time', did I? Nor did I say it was time consuming. And, you can do what you want with your extra time. I buy plenty of crap on eBay and elsewhere, and clean it up and make it serviceable. Very serviceable, and then sell it. And, I get it cheap because the owner is too lazy, too clueless, or too cheap to take care of their gear.

But, if a diver wants me to clean up after them, they can pay me for that privilege. Otherwise, ams511, you are welcome to clean the gear for them, while you are doing other things, BEFORE they bring it to me for service.

Ok I understand now. You price gouge clients with less than pristine gear to punish them for not taking care of their regulators. Sounds like an excellent business practice to me.

 

[halocline]

I cringe at the idea of $15 for "extra cleaning" unless that was discussed up front.

I thought about that one too, but didn't bring it up. Who knows what it means......

 

[The Chairman]

Kudos to the shop for finding the leaky hose. Bricks to the shop for not communicating this ahead of time. I doubt the shop was incompetent, irresponsible or dishonest. In fact, I commend them for not sending out a regulator that had a leaky hose. It's obvious that they have some great standards but they obviously need a customer communications class.

For most shops, replacing a leaky hose is a no brainer. IT'S LEAKING! They aren't making much if any markup on the hose and the reg set isn't dive worthy with a leak, now is it? They are probably flabbergasted that you have an issue with them simply changing it out. It's a problem and frankly, the LDS is not the only one at fault here. It's just as important for the consumer to communicate what they want clearly.

Give your LDS boundaries when you bring your gear in. Like the battery, if they do it anyway, you have clear grounds for not paying them. Clearly write for them that you expect to pay $X unless they get prior approval ahead of time. Be proactive instead of merely relying on being reactive.

I was a service manager for Goodyear for a long time. I was sent to rehabilitate under performing service centers in the Central Florida area. I was often asked the secret of my success and frankly, it's the same secret I use here: No secrets. It takes a dedication to communication and frankly that's on both sides of the fence. So many times a customer would show up asking for a tune up and I would stop and ask them why. Some would tell me why, but a number of customers thought they were smarter than me and would self diagnose the problem. When I gave them the car back and it was doing the very same thing, there would always be a problem. Why? Unrealistic expectations on the part of the consumer.

So, ask questions, set limits, discuss expectations and most importantly: put it in writing! It doesn't have to be long or full of legalese. Remember, it takes two to communicate and you'll have a much better experience if you take the initiative.