Regulator kits

[kevink]

doole - right on the mark. I second that.

Once you have introduced something to the distribution chain, you have no control over it, period. That is why agencies like the CPSC and the FDA are the public voice of a recall.

If a Mfg. can account for all of its defective products, and retrieve them,by definition it is not a recall. When Lexus first introduced the LS400, they needed to change the ECM's on the first 2000 cars produced. They never recalled them, they sent a technitian to the owners house to replace them.

The more I read this post, the more I think MFG's need to pull their head out of their anatomy, offer the technitian classes to the public (charge a reasonable price for them), and sell people the tools and kits to fix their own gear. What better sales force could you have then people that were motivated enough to sit through a 6-hour class and dutifully service their gear every year? I don't think it is all about money. But the people looking to service their own gear are not doing so to save a $40 annual service, but rather they want to make sure their setup is dead-on.

I think this is a win-win. If I was Joe Average diver, that owned two Acme* regulators, and went to the Acme clinic, I would be recommending Acme to my friends when they wanted to know what to get. How much am I worth to Acme getting these regs serviced by an authorized dealer every year ($40 labor), as opposed to gettting new gear sales from the group of people I dive with?



*Acme is the brand trusted most by Wile E. Coyote

 

[TwoTanks]

Ok, our warranty policy states that in order to maintain the "lifetime parts replacement", the reg has to be serviced annualy.

I use "our policy as it stands today" simply because we are always listening to input and may at some point make a change.

Scott

Here is something else to think about, When I was in cozumel years ago I had a problem with my oceanic regs. I found lots of shops that could fix the regs but I had to try a dozen shops before I found someone who had the parts. from then on until I stopped using those regs, I always carried a spare parts kit for the regs. I don't service my own regs, but I wouldn't buy a reg if I couldn't get a parts kit for a tech to install at some obscure location.

I'm sure there are lots of places where parts are not available when there is a problem.

Just my .02

TT

 

[doole]

*Acme is the brand trusted most by Wile E. Coyote

I've been searching nearly my whole life for some of those Acme brand anti-gravity pills - you wouldn't know where I could find them, would you?

 

[redacted]

I don't think it is all about money. But the people looking to service their own gear are not doing so to save a $40 annual service, but rather they want to make sure their setup is dead-on.

It is all about money, directly & indirectly. Between my wife and I (she has 1) I'm using and maintaining 10 regulators. I do not want to spend $400 (or twice that which is closer to normal charges) per year for mostly unnecessary service. And most LDS don't want to sell me the annual service parts which should go around $40 + per regulator including the normal markup. But the reality is that I'm probably spending around $100 per year for parts to maintain all my regs. I like the savings so much that I may have to go buy another regualtor or two. (Don't tell her, please)

I got started because of inept service and high service charges. I have had some minor problems with regs I have serviced. But none were serious and all were corrected, on the spot, from my save-a-dive kit without limiting my diving or having to make a trip back to the LDS. That is the big advantage of DIY.

 

[kevink]

It is all about money, directly & indirectly. Between my wife and I (she has 1) I'm using and maintaining 10 regulators.

I have 4 1/2 with my wife's rig. I never wanted to service my own gear until I found myself overseas with my newly serviced Sherwood that would not stop freeflowing. I came to find out the numbskull that serviced it set the IP for 160psi. Luckily the guide knew how to fix this, knew what the proper setting was, showed me what to look for, and with a simple allen key was able to reset the IP.

So much for highly skilled service.

Now I am the only one that touches my stuff.

 

[yknot]

The real reason, regardless of what the scuba manufacturers tell you, is to protect their dealers, thereby assuring a loyal distribution and sales network. These are the facts: Linking specific service and parts to a warranty is illegal. In Europe, this practice is not only illegal but also enforced. Look at Aqualung's warranties for both the US and Europe by comparison. The European warranty doesn't offer parts for life, simply a warranty against defects for a set period of time, with an out clause for abuse, etc. If the real reason they won't sell repair kit is a legitimate concern for our safety, why isn't Europe littered with dead DIY divers, as they have the opportunity to buy service kits? Without the free parts for life offer, is there alot of value in buying your reg at a LDS for double the price of someplace like LeisurePro? If you think the manufacturers really care about qualified servicers, the fact is they sell parts kits to their dealerships without any question as to the qualification or training about the specific individual that will be doing the service. If the greatest tech on the planet, for a specific brand of gear were to go down the street to work for a LDS selling another brand, they wouldn't have any better access to parts than I would, at least thru legitimate channels. Does you local auto parts store require you to show a training certificate before you buy brake parts? Is it really anyone's business why I want to service my own gear? Does it have to be because I don't trust the LDS? What if I just enjoy seeing how things work and get satisfaction from doing my own service. What if I just want to save the $40?

 

[dlndavid]

I've been searching nearly my whole life for some of those Acme brand anti-gravity pills - you wouldn't know where I could find them, would you?

If you can't find them here, they can't be found. Scroll down with the cursor bar about an inch.
http://www.deathworld.org/spy.html

 

[Scuba]

Happens just the same. Happened to me. Call me dim but I can't see how it's a reason not to sell rebuild kits to consumers.

Actually, I agree.

"The manufacturer does not need an exclusive authorized dealer relationship with the retail outlet for this corrective action to take place and be effective

The only good argument I've heard from manufacturers on this issue is: "Its our policy" They set it according to what they perceive is "their" best interests. All the other liability, safety, blah, blah, blah nonsense is nothing but an attempt to fool the consumer. One only needs to see how they "train" their reg. techs.

On a legal note, the manufacturers can claim they do not prevent anyone else, another company, from making and selling parts kits for their regulators. Its a small market, therefore not much incentive for others to get into this business.

Anyways, given that there is not one regulator out there head and shoulders above the rest, the best thing for those who feel strongly about this subject is to speak with the one language all businesses understand - money.

 

[doole]

Anyways, given that there is not one regulator out there head and shoulders above the rest, the best thing for those who feel strongly about this subject is to speak the with the one language all businesses understand - money.

That or simply get comfy with your LDS and get them to help you bypass the system.

 

[Marek K]

Linking specific service and parts to a warranty is illegal. In Europe, this practice is not only illegal but also enforced.

I'm not sure that's true -- though I wish it were.

Sherwood, for instance, in the U.S. still offers the familiar two-year warranty with free annual-service parts, of course as long as that service is done at an authorized dealer.

But here in Europe, Sherwood offers a 30-year warranty... but under the same "authorized service" terms as in the U.S. I just checked that on the website of Balzer Gmbh in Germany, Sherwood's sole authorized rep for Germany, Austria, and Eastern Europe. I guess they're still having trouble penetrating this market, and need that incentive.

Consistent with that, here in Poland, an LDS (authorized Sherwood dealer) told me that they could still indeed provide free parts for my old (1986) Sherwood reg, but only if I could provide proof that authorized service had been done yearly since then. Um, sorry...

And the same LDS quoted me a ridiculously high price for the parts kit... equivalent to about $100, when Sherwood/USA says the retail price is less than $10 in the States. I asked the LDS whether I could order an original Sherwood kit from the States, and have them put the parts in as part of the service -- maintaining the warranty isn't an issue anymore; I just wanted the work done right with the correct parts.

The answer was "absolutely not" -- the dealer's contract with the Sherwood regional distributor in Germany is that the parts not only have to be original, but have to be provided through them.

Poland is now a member of the EU, so the same laws should apply here.

Of course, things aren't quite brought into line yet here, EU-wise; and there does still tend to be some confusion sometimes...

After a month, I'm still trying to resolve that parts price issue...

--Marek