Regulator Freezing

[shurite7]

In my experience of diving in cold water and ice diving second stages iced up and gave problems than first stages. I asked many divers if they had ice form over their first stage. The only ones that said yes were the three that went to Antarctica. In my view the second stage is just as important as the first stage when I comes to cold water. I’ve not seen any first stages with ice, but I’ve seen several second stages with ice in them.

I agree with tbone that many freeze ups are a result of operator era. Maintaining a good breathing pattern is important. Handling of the second stage (i.e. keep it out of the snow, don’t inhale with the reg in your mouth while on the surface) is also important.

 

[gbirch]

Good discussion folks, many thanks to those of you that contributed, your inputs certainly helped me to think this through. In summarizing, a couple of useful resources on the topic:

Scuba Regulator Freezing Chilling Facts & Risks Associated with Cold Water Diving (Probably the definitive work on this subject)
Mechanism of diving regulators (Good section on the mechanisms of icing about 2/3 of the way down)

My conclusion is that I'll continue to lower the IP for ice diving and will continue to advise students to do the same unless advised otherwise by the regulator manufacturer.... but now I can do that with some better understanding

Thank You.

 

[tbone1004]

Good discussion folks, many thanks to those of you that contributed, your inputs certainly helped me to think this through. In summarizing, a couple of useful resources on the topic:

Scuba Regulator Freezing Chilling Facts & Risks Associated with Cold Water Diving (Probably the definitive work on this subject)
Mechanism of diving regulators (Good section on the mechanisms of icing about 2/3 of the way down)

My conclusion is that I'll continue to lower the IP for ice diving and will continue to advise students to do the same unless advised otherwise by the regulator manufacturer.... but now I can do that with some better understanding

Thank You.

I have never seen anything in writing from a regulator manufacturer recommending lowering the IP for ice diving. I have also never seen anything in writing from a training agency recommending the IP be lowered either. It is one thing to tune on the bottom side of spec, but if you are recommending the IP be lowered below the spec of the regulator, then you are opening yourself up for liability and I urge you to not do that. If you have something in writing recommending the IP be lowered then I am quite curious to see it.

The vast majority of regulators are 135psi +10psi *I just checked Apeks, Deep6, HOG, Dive Rite, and Scubapro's reg manuals and they are all in there. Apeks is 130-145psi though*

 

[Bigbella]

Scuba Regulator Freezing Chilling Facts & Risks Associated with Cold Water Diving (Probably the definitive work on this subject)
Mechanism of diving regulators (Good section on the mechanisms of icing about 2/3 of the way down)

My conclusion is that I'll continue to lower the IP for ice diving and will continue to advise students to do the same unless advised otherwise by the regulator manufacturer.... but now I can do that with some better understanding

Thank You.

I've seen both articles; but, for the life of me, cannot recall, in the recommendation or mitigation section of either "Scuba Regulator Freezing Chilling Facts & Risks Associated with Cold Water Diving," which you described as a "definitive work"; or, even that "wiki" page, any instruction to "de-tune" a regulator. The only mention of adjusting IP, at all, was only in connection to the Kirby Morgan Thermo Exchanger; and that suggestion was to run it at the higher-end of the IP range, due to the volume of that odd radiator-like device.

The common advice was, once more, common sense; responsible, above-water, pre-dive treatment of the gear, and the quality -- dryness -- of the air supply . . .

 

[shurite7]

I did not find it necessary to reduce IP below specs when it came to diving ice diving in cold mountain lakes. Several years ago I was in contact with diver/technician down in Antarctica. He informed me they use regs that are designed for cold water and the IPs are not dropped below specs. For those who were diving in the cold I kept the IP on the lower side. For those diving in purely warm tropical water regs were generally kept in the middle range, depending on what the spec was. I also learned over time what IP worked good or not so good for particular regs.

The idea of dropping the IP below specs may have been a good option in years past. With todays regs, it generally doesn’t need to happen.

 

[Oitzu]

I have never seen anything in writing from a regulator manufacturer recommending lowering the IP for ice diving.

Actually Aqualung had done this indirectly the past. They had supreme (for cold water) and non-supreme versions of the regs. The main difference for the supreme was: A snowflake printed on the housing, a added lipshield on the second stage and an ip of 8.5Bar (9.5Bar on the non-supreme version).
Afaik the current versions all just go with an ip of 8.5.

 

[jborg]

I took a dive today and both me and my buddy got significant ice buildup on the first stage. Though far from Antarctica the water here is brackish and about 0.5 C to begin with, so perhaps not entirely surprising. This wasn't a problem though, regulator worked perfectly fine. No ice in the second stage, which would have been worse.

 

[Cert1967]

Looks like Lake Michigan would put most regs to the test today - this is Miller Beach, Gary, Indiana, close to the DRIS boat's slip.

Surface water temp is ~33F, with a week of bitter cold ahead - highs below 20f, cold day high of 2f, low of -7f, solid ice is likely

Michigan Sea Grant Coastwatch​

Not cold enough for you today for a test of your reg icing? The high is predicted at 17F, falling to -2F tonight - a stiffer test should you not venture out this afternoon.

Tomorrow the winds remain the same during the day, WNW, the temps are predicted to be a bit chilly, high of 8F, low of 3F. Should put your reg to a stiff test - jump right in!

Temp at depth?

GLCFS Products​

How big is your boat?

LMZ744-745-062215
Gary to Burns Harbor-Burns Harbor to Michigan City- 929 AM CST Sat Feb 6 2021
SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM LATE TONIGHT THROUGH SUNDAY MORNING...
REST OF TODAY...West winds 10 to 15 kt. Snow. Waves 2 to 4 ft subsiding to 1 to 3 ft late.
TONIGHT...Northwest winds 15 to 25 kt. Snow in the evening, then a chance of snow showers east of Gary after midnight. Freezing spray after midnight.
Waves 2 to 4 ft building to 4 to 6 ft occasionally to 8 ft after midnight.
SUNDAY...West winds 10 to 20 kt. Slight chance of snow showers east of Gary in the morning. Freezing spray through the day. Waves 4 to 6 ft occasionally to 8 ft subsiding to 3 to 5 ft in the afternoon.​

Maybe tomorrow you might see solid ice jammed up on the south portion of the lake.

The image is looking NW from Miller - on a clear day the Chicago skyline is visible.

Boat launch for the public? Marquette Park, Lake Street, $10 Gary resident, $12 if not. Should be plenty of space to park you trailer.

 

[Bigbella]

Yikes -- bring in the brass monkeys . . .

 

[Cert1967]

Today would work for a good test of cold water regs.

No need for a boat - just walk out and drill a hole. How's that work with pack ice?

Perfect for @Marie13 ???