Regulator Choice

[stuartv]

Deep6 is a good company and their regs seem really nice. But, I would get straight on a maintenance plan before buying anything.

In other words, figure out what you will do for service on whatever regs you buy, before you buy them.

A lot of people recommending Deep6 regs are people who would work on them themselves - or people who have bought Deep6 but haven't had them long enough yet to need service.

I would be perfectly happy to have some Deep6 regs. But, I would work on them myself.

However, for people who aren't going to do their own service work, the choices are having them serviced locally to wherever you are, or mail them off somewhere to have them serviced.

If you're cool with mailing your regs off any time they need service, then Deep6 are no problem. But, if you don't want to trust them to the mail (or other carrier), then you might want to find out if any place local will service them.

At my shop, we don't have anyone certified on Deep6 regs, so we would not work on them at all, simply because of the liability involved.

If you don't want to ship them every time and you don't want to work on them yourself, you might want to make sure someone local will work on them before you invest.

 

[stuartv]

I meant to add, something I have seen posted about Deep6 regs is the note that they come with a service kit. And, it is often suggested that if you are, for example, diving in the Caribbean and have a problem, having that parts kit with you means you can take the reg and the service kit to any reg tech there to get it fixed (presuming, of course, that you don't do your own reg tech work).

But, my thoughts on that are: One, is the shop in the Caribbean going to have anyone certified to work on Deep6? If not, would I want them to work on my Deep6 regs? I mean, there are shops local to me with techs that I know and trust and I would trust them to work on my XYZ brand reg, even if they weren't certified on it. But, do I trust some random tech at some shop in the Caribbean (who isn't trained on XYZ)? The instructor at my ScubaPro reg tech class said "the time of greatest risk to any reg is any time a tech touches it." My impression is that there are lot of reg techs out there that I would not want to work on my regs, no matter what certs they have.

And, two, even if I trusted the tech at the Caribbean shop to work on my reg, will the shop be willing to do it? Or will they decline because of the liability and insist on renting you a reg to use instead? I mean, what incentive do they really have to fix your "off-brand" reg, when they could just rent you one of theirs instead?

Generally, regs that are maintained properly are not going to have a problem when you're on vacation, so this is not a big concern. I just want to point out that I feel like Deep6 regs may be awesome and fantastic for the price. But, I think some people on ScubaBoard get a bit overenthusiastic in pushing them, often glossing over potential concerns or citing benefits that really aren't the benefit that they make it sound like.

I'm not trying to steer anyone away from Deep6. Actually, I would highly recommend buying Deep6 regs (and their fins, which are AWESOME) and also committing to take the class and learning to work on them yourself. But, anyone buying them should be aware of what issues they may run into, particularly if they aren't going to learn to work on them themselves.

 

[Umuntu]

@stuartv i think you are overemphasising the uniqueness of different brands of regulators.

Servicing a Deep 6 first stage is not very different from any other balanced diaphragm first stage.

And the Deep 6 second stage is not that different from a Scubapro 156 and any other balanced second stage in substance.

Finding someone you trust while travelling may be more difficult. But I know from experience that once you hit the places in the world with interesting sub tropical diving that local service techs don't really care about specific manufacturer anti-competitive certification practices.

I think that scuba manufacturers need to get together and agree on a general qualification. Do car mechanics have to put up with manufacturers certifications nonsense ? I have yet to encounter a scuba regulator more complex than a motor car engine.

 

[stuartv]

@stuartv i think you are overemphasising the uniqueness of different brands of regulators.

It's nothing at all to do with the uniqueness of the different brands.

It's everything to do with the money trail. At my shop, the money trail translates to liability and my shop's unwillingness to be on the hook for someone's life support equipment that no tech at my shop is certified on.

Other shops in the U.S. may handle it differently. That is why I suggested to simply check before making a buying decision.

At a dive destination outside the U.S., they may or may not have the same concerns about lawsuits and liability. If they don't care about the liability of it, the money trail for them is that they can use "a brand we don't carry or have training on" as an excuse to just make you rent one of their regs. No work on their part and they charge you more money.

I'm not saying AT ALL that the OP can't get a Deep6 reg worked on at a dive destination or in his home town. I'm just saying he should figure out what his plan is for regular, local (or mail-in) service, and also be aware of the POSSIBILITY of inability to get service when on a trip.

I have dived with one operator here in the U.S. where I KNOW that you could not get a reg fixed because they simply did not have any techs working there in the evenings. One weekend, my buddy had a small leak from the isolator manifold on this doubles. We saw it during the first dive day. When we got back to the dock, we asked if they had someone that could look at it. "Nope. Sorry. We don't have any techs in the shop today." We asked if they had some tools we could borrow to take it apart ourselves. "Nope. Sorry." Fortunately, we took his tanks to another shop, 3 miles away, where they took his doubles apart, replaced the O-rings, put it back together, filled his tanks, and then only charged him for the fill. And they KNEW we were diving with their competitor down the street. Now, I only dive with them.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are plenty of dive charter operations that don't have a reg tech (readily at hand) at all. In which case, it wouldn't matter what brand it is. Which brings me back to my point that I feel like "it comes with a service kit" is a benefit that is often oversold, here on ScubaBoard. I'm not saying it has no value at all. Just that I think the value is often blown out of proportion by Deep6 fans.

I am a Deep6 fan. I'm just trying to keep it real.

 

[tbone1004]

@stuartv one thing to point out on mailing regulators out is that there are surprisingly few shops that are actually doing service in-house these days and many of them mail their regulators off to have them done. Air-Tech in Raleigh gets most of their work from shops that mail regs in. The other thing to point out is most shops that do have their own in-house techs, while they are authorized and trained by the manufacturers, if it isn't what they do all day every day, then is it really better than mailing it off?

 

[Umuntu]

I meant to add, something I have seen posted about Deep6 regs is the note that they come with a service kit. And, it is often suggested that if you are, for example, diving in the Caribbean and have a problem, having that parts kit with you means you can take the reg and the service kit to any reg tech there to get it fixed (presuming, of course, that you don't do your own reg tech work).

I was really reacting to the above paragraph.

I would encourage any diver travelling with their own regs to take a specific spare parts kit for their regulators. The local techs will have seen and worked on similar regulators, but they. won't know what specific parts your regs require, and are very unlikely to have the parts kits available at short notice.

Deep 6's et al are Apeks look-a-likes. There are some minor differences. But nothing substantial. And there are a lot of look-a-like brands out there. Whether in the generic unbalanced piston, balanced piston SP MK5/10 group, or balanced diaphragm Conshelf / Apeks classes.

 

[tbone1004]

@Umuntu better solution is to just buy a doubles kit, keep the spare first stage with you, and swap hoses over if you need to if you are that concerned. The last thing I want when travelling is someone I don't know touching my regulators.

 

[Umuntu]

@stuartv one thing to point out on mailing regulators out is that there are surprisingly few shops that are actually doing service in-house these days and many of them mail their regulators off to have them done. Air-Tech in Raleigh gets most of their work from shops that mail regs in. The other thing to point out is most shops that do have their own in-house techs, while they are authorized and trained by the manufacturers, if it isn't what they do all day every day, then is it really better than mailing it off?

My experience travelling in remoter dive locations is that the shop that does the tank testing also does all the reg servicing for the smaller outfits. Often they don't run a dive shop either.

 

[stuartv]

@stuartv one thing to point out on mailing regulators out is that there are surprisingly few shops that are actually doing service in-house these days and many of them mail their regulators off to have them done. Air-Tech in Raleigh gets most of their work from shops that mail regs in. The other thing to point out is most shops that do have their own in-house techs, while they are authorized and trained by the manufacturers, if it isn't what they do all day every day, then is it really better than mailing it off?

I hear you.

Your points confirm (in my mind) the somewhat dubious value of having your own service kit in hand. (unless you're going to do your own work, of course)

Both of the local shops I have patronized in my area do regulator servicing in house. The shop I work for won't touch any regs that our techs are not trained on. The other local shop probably would work on Deep6, even though I doubt they are specifically trained on Deep6. In that case, having a parts kit to hand them would be helpful.

My point is, again, the OP should (in my opinion, of course) take some time to figure out what his plan will be for service. If all his local shops mail regs out for service, then there is no real advantage to buying a mainstream name brand. But, if he is in Pensacola, as his profile says, I'm pretty sure he can get at least some regs serviced locally. I didn't specifically ask, but from the short time I spent in the back at MBT Divers last summer, I have a feeling that they service regs in house. In which case, he might want to find out what brands he can get serviced locally and what the reputation is of the local(s) who do that servicing.

If he's only in P'cola for the short to mid-term, then that might be even more reason to buy a mainstream brand. Anywhere he lives has a higher chance of having a local ScubaPro or Aqualung/Apeks tech than a local Deep6 tech.

As I said earlier, though, my opinion on the BEST option would be to invest in Deep6 regs and the class and tools to work on them himself.

 

[stuartv]

@Umuntu better solution is to just buy a doubles kit, keep the spare first stage with you, and swap hoses over if you need to if you are that concerned. The last thing I want when travelling is someone I don't know touching my regulators.

Exactly. More support for the notion that having a service kit in hand is not as much of a value as some people imply that it is. It's great if you can do your own work. If you can't, then you have to find somebody that claims to be able to do it, is willing to do it in the required timeframe, decide if you trust them, and then hope they don't make a mess of it. Or just rent a reg set and put yours aside until you get home.

If you don't trust the reg set they would rent you, why would you trust them to work on your own reg set (which they aren't even trained on)?