Regular air in Nitrox tank

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Drew Sailbum:
Grade E air is the term for air which is not filtered to the higher level of purity. If Grade E air is placed in a cylinder that was in oxygen service, then the cylinder needs to be cleaned again prior to use in oxygen service.

Modified Grade E air is air which has been filtered to a higher level of purity. Modified Grade E air may be added to a cylinder without compromising its oxygen service status.

Yes Sir, you are exactly correct. There are those shops that wont put air in a Nitox tank due to contamination, but the air they wont put in there is the same air that they mix with?? Go figure Huh!
 
I fill my O2 clean tanks regularly with OCA (oxygen compatible air). As long as I keep them O2 clean, there's no problem filling them with nitrox using partial pressure. Even if they weren't O2 clean I could still fill banked nitrox. Like others have said, it ain't rocket science....
 
clearwaterdivers:
Yes Sir, you are exactly correct. There are those shops that wont put air in a Nitox tank due to contamination, but the air they wont put in there is the same air that they mix with?? Go figure Huh!
Not exactly.

Modified Grade E air has been run through an additional filter. To achieve the lower level of contaminants of Modified Grade E air, the compressor often uses a more expensive synthetic oil too. Some shops (certainly not all) will have a seperate compressor for Modified Grade E air. More expense is involved in providing this service.

Plain old Grade E air doesn't get the additional filtration and may come off a compressor that is cheaper to operate but is not capable of the higher standard of purity.
 
Well I guess I am lucky I don’t have to deal with any of this! My local dive shop has a compressor that does the NITROX mixing before it is put into the tank. I switch between air and NITROX all the time. I guess there are not a lot of dive shops that have this new compressor.
I can get a fill of 36% for about $10 and dive till the tank is at 800psi. Then go back and have the tank filled with AIR, check it with my O2 analyzer and have a mix higher than 21%. It works out pretty good.
 
sharpenu:
Nitrox is just (filtered) air with oxygen added. There isn't anything magical about it. Think of air as EANx21. Some shops charge extra for "Nitrox air",EANx21, hyperair or whatever they choose to call it. This "hyper-air" is simply standard grade e with a few less impurities (less oil, for example). I wont fill my tanks at any shop that does this. The extra filter doesnt cost that much extra to use, I feel like this is to milk the diver out of a few extra bucks. Besides, I feel like asking them why they have to charge extra for the "clean air".

BTW, O2 cleaning here runs you about $25 most places and includes a visual. Nitrox fills are around $5 to $7 and air runs about $1 to $3.

Since Im here and I am in the Dive Shop Business and have been for 16 years now, with a smirk, I feel that you are asking why the extra charge and the milking of the financially poor diver so feel like it no more. Here is an answer. This may get long winded, sorry!!

The extra filter in my Robbins Aviation 3 Tower dual Moister Collector Filter System that was over $3000 when new is $125 + shipping and the other 2 are $100 + shipping and are changed on an annual and during summer as needed basis. Yes, this is expensive and there are cheaper filters on the market but they dont fit and the cost of a new system hurts to much. The synthetic oil that is used to reduce Hydrocarbons and such is $40 per gallon + shipping and on an unfortunate note, high pressure compressors do use oil and anyone that owns one of these $20,000.00 entities changes the oil on a regular basis. A rebuild after 5 to 8 years on my unit is right at $6000. Because I do partial pressure Blending, I have an industry standard that I live by and it is Not standard Grade J or Just a Grade E, it is Grade E Modified for Blending gas and I only use Aviators 0/2 which is filtered a bit more than Medical Grade 0/2 and yes due to the filtering, it cost more and I charge more and the Air Tests that I do quaterly are $45 + shipping and if I fail, I change filters @ $325+ shipping and retest @ $45 + shipping. The air storage banks that I use are cleaned and Inspected (labor intensive) on a regular basis and I have all 8 of them hydrostaticly tested every 3 years and lucky that it is only $20 each for this. The whips and lead lines are serviced too on a regular basis. And in the least, we get to pay for the 3 Phase Commercial Electricity that it take to run all of this.($400 to $600 per month) I dont know why the big HYPER thing, jesus,Hyperlinks, Hyper stretch neopreme, Hyper-Filtered, Hyper Activated, Hyper Active, may just be Hype!! Just Like the word TITANIUM. It was and is in everything now. I suggest we all get ready for HYPER cause its on its way. To get to the skinny, until a diver has had the fun of owning an air station or has worked and maintained one and has been through accusations of Stinky Air, or experienced a filter breakdown or as some shops, dealing with Oily Air and those accused of Distasteful air and get a chance to feel what the rumors from the people that spent $4 for a tank of Air do to you as you sweat it out and feel as if its going to destroy you and your hard work as you work harder and longer to get it back where it needs to be and clean all 250 of your rental and class tanks you keep inspected, hydroed and ready to rent for $2 bucks for the divers that cant and or won't own their own. With no exageration, I have 100 tanks going to hydro this season, Should I expense that from air fills or rentals??, We wind up spending numerous days and hours cleaning Air lines and such and have seen what exploding tanks do and the injuries that they create as well as dealing with the cut downs about our pricing, cause its cheaper on the internet. We have to deal with the internet shopper that comes to our Shop to get information and try on, touch, feel, see and fondle what they want to buy from the internet while we help them do it, for free????? And then when the size is wrong or they find out that they got seconds or it craps out on them, they are back expecting us, The non profit making free try on place to make good on the product????? We go through alot just trying to pay the $3000 rent that Houses the one thing that makes us a SCUBA SHOP, our beloved Compressor!!. I hope this will help you and other divers to understand the cost of Air and what it takes to be in this business,I could keep going you know. Appreciate the air fill station you use and be grateful that you can go get Air. I dont know what people pay all around the world, but we only get $4 a fill when it should be $10 a fill and be able to make a profit. I have looked at it closely and the cost on average is near $3 per fill to produce the air, this does not include my labor. I have to do alot of fills just to break even and most of the time, I don't. No one is making a living on their air fills, at least where Im at we're not, so support your local shop, and buy your things there, they need to get paid for what they do, profit from gear sales keeps your local shop going and able to produce air. Everyone else gets paid for doing their job, why should't your local Dive shop\operator. Just think, if things keep on the way that they are going, all the money that people save on the internet, will get to buy their own compressor and keep it up or, they could do mail order air and hope that they are doing as good a job as your local shop. If that ever came about, how many would just stop diving?? At least at the dive shop you can hang out and chat and meet new people and gather information and tell lies and stories about diving. Pay the fee friends and Divers, air is not free. Anyone want to help me tear down and clean my system? Didn't think so.
 
sharpenu:
BTW, O2 cleaning here runs you about $25 most places and includes a visual. Nitrox fills are around $5 to $7 and air runs about $1 to $3.
Where are you getting your fills in Orlando...?? I know of several where its four bucks for an air fill and 12 for nitrox...

Waiting to be enlightened...so I can save up for that set of doubles :)
 
rcain1:
I guess there are not a lot of dive shops that have this new compressor.

It has little to do with the compressor, but how the mixing is done. With continuous blend, you feed oxygen into the compressor intake along with air, to achieve the mix you desire. An oil less compressor is nice, but not required. Lots of shops bank EAN made this way as its much easier and faster.

MD
 
As I know, InxxMxx also asks more than $40 for O2 clean.... Is it too much?
Do they use the partical pressure blending or premix for Nitrox fill?

Dan Gibson:
I hope you aren't actually paying that much for O2 clean service.
 
I'm not sure on the price since I help out at the store. I'm generally not charged for the occasional visual. I have one steel tank that's in for a tumble and then it needs to be O2 cleaned. I'll have to wait and see what if anything I am charged.

They only pp fill at the Fishers store. They use the Anex Supreme (I think that's the name) for filling nitrox. It's sort of automated once you put the values into the computer. The Carmel store does not fill nitrox at this time.

hoosier:
As I know, InxxMxx also asks more than $40 for O2 clean.... Is it too much?
Do they use the partical pressure blending or premix for Nitrox fill?
 
sharpenu:
Nitrox is just (filtered) air with oxygen added. There isn't anything magical about it. Think of air as EANx21. Some shops charge extra for "Nitrox air",EANx21, hyperair or whatever they choose to call it. This "hyper-air" is simply standard grade e with a few less impurities (less oil, for example). I wont fill my tanks at any shop that does this. The extra filter doesnt cost that much extra to use, I feel like this is to milk the diver out of a few extra bucks. Besides, I feel like asking them why they have to charge extra for the "clean air".

BTW, O2 cleaning here runs you about $25 most places and includes a visual. Nitrox fills are around $5 to $7 and air runs about $1 to $3.
What's the point of O2 cleaning if you're going to turn around and put Grade E air into it??
 

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