Regs need servicing...
- Thread starter SeaJay
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SeaJay
Contributor
Okay, I thought about this all day. I've been in a horrible mood because of it. 
I called LeisurePro this morning and told them that my regs are 5 months old and not holding an IP. I told them that to get them fixed, I had them serviced, and the problem is actually worse now. I told them that I could take them back to the place that did the work, but I don't trust them now and that these stupid things should still be under some sort of warranty. I seem to remember that they came with a 1-year from LP... I couldn't remember.
The dude on the other line listened for a few minutes, and in typical NYC fashion said, "Let me get this straight - you bought regs 5 months ago and now they don't work."
"Yep."
"Send them to us. We'll have our techs look at them and fix them. If they can't be fixed we'll send them back to ScubaPro. ScubaPro will either fix them or replace them - their call."
He then gave me a return authorization number and some specific instructions.
Best case scenario: I can expect my regs back in two weeks. Worse case is supposedly four weeks.
...So I mulled all day if this was the option that I wanted to take. The bottom line is that I ain't goin' back to Savannah to take more abuse. I played over and over in my mind all day when Mr. A-hole said to me, "I wouldn't want to dive with you, buddy." I wish I'd thought to say, "With an attitude like that, you'll never get the opportunity."
Whatever. The more I think about the way they treated me, the more smoked I get about it.
...Anyway, so I thought about the LeisurePro route or another option - sending them straight to EE and knowing that they're done right. Of course, I would definitely be out some money with that option... Assuming that they just do another service, I'm probably looking in the $100 range again... Which would bring my total up to $220 to fix a part that costs $120 brand new. That just doesn't make any sense.
In terms of fixing it myself... There's no doubt that I want to learn how to do that. I will definitely buy the tools... But I want my regs fixed sooner than that... And there's no doubt in my mind that getting a full set of the right specialized tools to work on that first stage is going to take longer than simply sending this stuff off.
Okay - so I'm sending these back to LP. I reassembled everything and put the original short hoses back on, complete with their built-in hose protectors. The Dive Locker would be so proud.
They sure are pretty like that. 
...But in the meantime, I'm going to work on equipping myself properly so that this issue never arises again. I'm going to learn this stuff and get the right tools and the right knowlege and the right parts and do it myself from here on. Might be kind of a trick to get all that stuff, but with time no longer an issue, I can do it right and end up on top of this problem next time.
Jeez, this sounds identical to my diving... Strange how my approach to this problem has mirrored the way I dive... "DIR Psychology?" Naaahhh... :haha:
I called LeisurePro this morning and told them that my regs are 5 months old and not holding an IP. I told them that to get them fixed, I had them serviced, and the problem is actually worse now. I told them that I could take them back to the place that did the work, but I don't trust them now and that these stupid things should still be under some sort of warranty. I seem to remember that they came with a 1-year from LP... I couldn't remember.
The dude on the other line listened for a few minutes, and in typical NYC fashion said, "Let me get this straight - you bought regs 5 months ago and now they don't work."
"Yep."
"Send them to us. We'll have our techs look at them and fix them. If they can't be fixed we'll send them back to ScubaPro. ScubaPro will either fix them or replace them - their call."
He then gave me a return authorization number and some specific instructions.
Best case scenario: I can expect my regs back in two weeks. Worse case is supposedly four weeks.
...So I mulled all day if this was the option that I wanted to take. The bottom line is that I ain't goin' back to Savannah to take more abuse. I played over and over in my mind all day when Mr. A-hole said to me, "I wouldn't want to dive with you, buddy." I wish I'd thought to say, "With an attitude like that, you'll never get the opportunity."
Whatever. The more I think about the way they treated me, the more smoked I get about it.
...Anyway, so I thought about the LeisurePro route or another option - sending them straight to EE and knowing that they're done right. Of course, I would definitely be out some money with that option... Assuming that they just do another service, I'm probably looking in the $100 range again... Which would bring my total up to $220 to fix a part that costs $120 brand new. That just doesn't make any sense.
In terms of fixing it myself... There's no doubt that I want to learn how to do that. I will definitely buy the tools... But I want my regs fixed sooner than that... And there's no doubt in my mind that getting a full set of the right specialized tools to work on that first stage is going to take longer than simply sending this stuff off.
Okay - so I'm sending these back to LP. I reassembled everything and put the original short hoses back on, complete with their built-in hose protectors. The Dive Locker would be so proud.
They sure are pretty like that. ...But in the meantime, I'm going to work on equipping myself properly so that this issue never arises again. I'm going to learn this stuff and get the right tools and the right knowlege and the right parts and do it myself from here on. Might be kind of a trick to get all that stuff, but with time no longer an issue, I can do it right and end up on top of this problem next time.
Jeez, this sounds identical to my diving... Strange how my approach to this problem has mirrored the way I dive... "DIR Psychology?" Naaahhh... :haha:
can be had from Peter Built, ordered online, and you'll have 'em in 2-3 days. Really.
The trick is finding the rebuild kits. There are a couple of guys who sell them on eBAY, but they don't always have them up there. I have no idea if the diaphram first kits are as easily obtained as the pistons - I've not bought any, as I dont' own any....
The trick is finding the rebuild kits. There are a couple of guys who sell them on eBAY, but they don't always have them up there. I have no idea if the diaphram first kits are as easily obtained as the pistons - I've not bought any, as I dont' own any....
ScoobieDooo
Guest
I got my IP gauge from Peter Built, as my O-ring tools, etc.
Service kits can be found by various board members, and on ebay from time to time.
It takes some detective work - but they can be had.
Good luck...
Service kits can be found by various board members, and on ebay from time to time.
It takes some detective work - but they can be had.
Good luck...
is that the "common rebuild kit" has THREE seats in it (different IPs) and at least two of them are typically usable for your particular reg, assuming you are willing to retune the seconds a bit and play with the shims.
Between shims and the seats, and assuming you use "buy 'em outside the kit" O-rings (like I do) you get at least two and perhaps three rebuilds out of one $15 kit! That's outstanding. Further, the regular 70 duro EPDM O-rings work fine in the Mk10, including the HP ring - there are a LOT of them running around with those duro O-rings in them which I assume came "stock", although now they're using something a bit harder (perhaps 80 duro) in their "official" rebuild kits. I've never had leaking problems with them in the Mk10s though.
The seats also don't degrade if they're stored right, unlike O-rings
(Another trick - the Mk10+ kit seats work in the 20/25s. Sssshhhhhh... you didn't hear that from me! )
MOST of the time you don't need a kit for a second - even with a pretty badly-engraved seat they can still be tuned and will breathe well, and O-rings on seconds are not
None of the other brands are anywhere near that reasonable for rebuild parts. You can literally do a full overhaul on a Mk10 first for about $5 worth of parts, and that assumes the seat is bad!
Between shims and the seats, and assuming you use "buy 'em outside the kit" O-rings (like I do) you get at least two and perhaps three rebuilds out of one $15 kit! That's outstanding. Further, the regular 70 duro EPDM O-rings work fine in the Mk10, including the HP ring - there are a LOT of them running around with those duro O-rings in them which I assume came "stock", although now they're using something a bit harder (perhaps 80 duro) in their "official" rebuild kits. I've never had leaking problems with them in the Mk10s though.
The seats also don't degrade if they're stored right, unlike O-rings
(Another trick - the Mk10+ kit seats work in the 20/25s. Sssshhhhhh... you didn't hear that from me!
)MOST of the time you don't need a kit for a second - even with a pretty badly-engraved seat they can still be tuned and will breathe well, and O-rings on seconds are not
None of the other brands are anywhere near that reasonable for rebuild parts. You can literally do a full overhaul on a Mk10 first for about $5 worth of parts, and that assumes the seat is bad!
ScoobieDooo
Guest
Too bad its a piston though...
As I've noted, if you want cold water capability, get the trim ring with the itty-bitty little balance hole and fill the ambient chamber with silicone.
Yes, even if you dive Nitrox, its ok - there's no tank gas contact with that part of the reg (at least there better not be or your reg is leaking badly!) The whole "gotta use Christolube" thing is true for things that have gas contact, but the balance chamber doesn't - and certainly not at any kind of elevated pressure.
The only downside is that its a PITA to clean the reg during annual service if you do that....
Yes, even if you dive Nitrox, its ok - there's no tank gas contact with that part of the reg (at least there better not be or your reg is leaking badly!) The whole "gotta use Christolube" thing is true for things that have gas contact, but the balance chamber doesn't - and certainly not at any kind of elevated pressure.
The only downside is that its a PITA to clean the reg during annual service if you do that....
ScoobieDooo
Guest
Thats right - filling a chamber with silicone grease is, IMHO, a messy 'fix' to what diaphragms do cleanly and efficiently.
But, thats just my $ .02.
Its not like diaphragm regs cost any more than a piston these days. So WHY let contaminants IN your reg if you don't need to?
But, thats just my $ .02.
Its not like diaphragm regs cost any more than a piston these days. So WHY let contaminants IN your reg if you don't need to?
Perhaps you can explain the difference to me between water around your reg's working parts and water around your reg's working parts.
That the piston reg has its balance chamber impacted by the ambient water is no different than the diaphram reg, really.
The only difference is that the diaphram reg has more parts in it to transmit that force indirectly from the water to the working parts. More parts, more to need to be worked on and/or replaced.
There is no "contaminent" that gets "inside" a piston reg. By definition the balance chamber is OUTSIDE of the parts of the reg that handle the gas. If the SS of the piston shaft cannot handle exposure to water, neither can the swivel or, for that matter the inlet fitting on your reg. There's no difference.
The potential issue with external corrosion exists with ANY reg if not properly cared for. If properly cared for, its a non-issue.
The ONLY potentially-valid issue is one of freezing when it comes to the piston reg, simply because the transmission of ambient pressure is DIRECT. But that also means that the gas is warmer, all other things equal, when delivered by a piston reg, since the water can warm it (just as the water is cooled) If that concern is a problem for you, there is a work-around in the form of putting silicone grease (an incompressible viscous fluid) in the balance chamber and sealing most of the trim ring holes (except for a tiny one so the balancing function still works.)
Why would I dive a piston? Because serviceability is a big deal. So is simplicity in design, while retaining high performance. (BTW, the real issue in terms of performance isn't airflow - all modern regs will deliver more air than six people can really consume - the issue is one of IP response when inhalation occurs - that is, how much "droop" occurs in the IP. This is particularly important with unbalanced seconds. Very high performance regs "droop" very little during inhalation - as little as 10 psi.)
I've seen plenty of INTERNAL contamination. How's it get there? From water that gets into the inlet, or tanks that get contaminated. I've got one steel that I foolishly let a commercial ship fill, and now it has flash rusting inside - just one streak on one wall - but its there, and its reasonable to assume that its there because they got a drop or three of water down the filler when they filled the tank in their water bath! GRRRR. I'll have to have the tank tumbled next time it comes around for a VIS, or when I get around to doing it. Where did that moisture go? Down my first stage. Under high pressure. It had to - there's nowhere else for it to go.
The more complex the internal design, the more likely that such a slight insult will cause problems with operation.
That the piston reg has its balance chamber impacted by the ambient water is no different than the diaphram reg, really.
The only difference is that the diaphram reg has more parts in it to transmit that force indirectly from the water to the working parts. More parts, more to need to be worked on and/or replaced.
There is no "contaminent" that gets "inside" a piston reg. By definition the balance chamber is OUTSIDE of the parts of the reg that handle the gas. If the SS of the piston shaft cannot handle exposure to water, neither can the swivel or, for that matter the inlet fitting on your reg. There's no difference.
The potential issue with external corrosion exists with ANY reg if not properly cared for. If properly cared for, its a non-issue.
The ONLY potentially-valid issue is one of freezing when it comes to the piston reg, simply because the transmission of ambient pressure is DIRECT. But that also means that the gas is warmer, all other things equal, when delivered by a piston reg, since the water can warm it (just as the water is cooled) If that concern is a problem for you, there is a work-around in the form of putting silicone grease (an incompressible viscous fluid) in the balance chamber and sealing most of the trim ring holes (except for a tiny one so the balancing function still works.)
Why would I dive a piston? Because serviceability is a big deal. So is simplicity in design, while retaining high performance. (BTW, the real issue in terms of performance isn't airflow - all modern regs will deliver more air than six people can really consume - the issue is one of IP response when inhalation occurs - that is, how much "droop" occurs in the IP. This is particularly important with unbalanced seconds. Very high performance regs "droop" very little during inhalation - as little as 10 psi.)
I've seen plenty of INTERNAL contamination. How's it get there? From water that gets into the inlet, or tanks that get contaminated. I've got one steel that I foolishly let a commercial ship fill, and now it has flash rusting inside - just one streak on one wall - but its there, and its reasonable to assume that its there because they got a drop or three of water down the filler when they filled the tank in their water bath! GRRRR. I'll have to have the tank tumbled next time it comes around for a VIS, or when I get around to doing it. Where did that moisture go? Down my first stage. Under high pressure. It had to - there's nowhere else for it to go.
The more complex the internal design, the more likely that such a slight insult will cause problems with operation.
ScoobieDooo
Guest
Genesis,
Do you have and use piston 1sts?
Are they that much easier than diaphragm 1sts to service yourself?
Are there less parts in the 1st stage?
Doesn't salt get into the 1st stage and cause corrosion?
Do you have and use piston 1sts?
Are they that much easier than diaphragm 1sts to service yourself?
Are there less parts in the 1st stage?
Doesn't salt get into the 1st stage and cause corrosion?
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