Regs for Deco/Stage Bottle

[CompuDude]

Good info, here, thanks!

Obviously the answer I wanted to hear was "sure, go ahead and use the cheap ones!" so I could give my aching wallet a break. In the back of my mind, I swear I knew better (in terms of the reaction I'd get).

So I end up with the same responses I've had going in... a strong contingent for "best possible", and a few opinions (from highly respectable sources) that they don't necessarily need to be top of the line.

My preference, as I said in the opening, would be for another MK25/S600 or MK17/S600. I'm a huge fan of ScubaPro, really. That's what I'm using for my doubles regs... and at some point, will pick up another for singles so I can stop switching hoses around every time I want to change off. :redhot:

But based on responses from Doc Intrepid and DA Aquamaster, I think I'm fairly comfortable going with the Calypso... for now. (I would consider the DiveRite/Salvo/etc models, but I don't see that happening for the ~$100 I can get the Calypso for!) I'll definitely move over to the S600 (or successor model) eventually, but I'm satisfied this will do me fine for now. It should be fine at 70fsw, which is where I'd expect to be using 50%. When I need better I can get better, but this gets my rig wet now rather than later... gotta pay for my upcoming Thailand trip before I buy more toys!

Just curious, since it's not really in the running right now, but in case it should be: How does the Scubapro MK2 Plus/R295 compare to the AquaLung Calypso? Better, worse, same?

 

[wkowalski]

Lawyers have made even the cheap regulators reliable.

 

[Hoosier]

Lawyers have made even the cheap regulators reliable.

What does it mean by that?

 

[rockjock3]

Your THIRD stage in training and for certain advanced three-stage diving will be for TMX 30/30. And your MOD for this gas will be 140 fsw. That is really deep, so you really need a high-end ScubaPro for this particular stage bottle. Not everyone dives with 3 stages or more however. But even some two-stage divers will opt for TMX 30/30 as a deep deco mix, and then a good high end reg would be needed.

Just curious, but what agency is 140fsw 30/30. All the guys I dive with (multiple agency tech certs) use 120fsw on 30/25. I know 30/30 is a common mix (along with 32) for 0-100fsw dives, but never heard of it for a standard deco gas (not that it couldn't be used in place of 30/25). Like I said, just wondering what agency suggests this gas/depth combo for deco, because I thought all agencies where pretty standard when it came to this type of diving.

 

[rockjock3]

Compdude,

What it comes down to is this. You don't need any special reg for deco bottles (other than ones that can be O2 cleaned for mixes that require that such as you 70mod and 20mod bottles). Except for that special consideration you simply want a reg that you are comfortable with to breathe dependably at the depths required by the bottle it is on. So something like this:

-mod20 bottle -safe and dependable breathing from 20fsw and up (can be O2 cleaned)
-mod70 bottle -safe and dependable from 70fsw and up (can be O2 cleaned)
-mod120 bottle - safe and dependable from 120fsw and up (no special cleaning)
-mod190 bottle - safe and dependable from 190fsw and up (no special cleaning)

Many entry level to mid-level regs on the market would be fit the criteria for your mod20, mod 70, and mod 120 bottle. Like was said before "Lawyers have made even the cheap regulators reliable". At that point you might want to head towards your more mid- to high-end models. For what its worth I use a SP MK16/r190 and MK16/R390 for my doubles setup and have breathed them down to 190fsw with no problems. I even tested them out inverted and no problems.

 

[northen diver]

I don't think that the Aqualung Calypso would be a bad choice, Aqualung makes good regs. I personally use a Titan LX on my deco bottle. I see a lot of OMS and Diverite regs on deco bottles in this area. Good luck with whatever you choose.

The Calypso and Titan are real close to being about the same. They both along with the Cousteau take the same exact rebuild kits and parts. I use the Calypso on my pony.

 

[fweber]

Compudude,

My dive buddies and I went through the same debate. We were primarily relying on Apeks regs. When needing additional regs we debated the cost savings of using Calypso's or OMS regs versus investing an additional $150 per set into ds4's and tx/atx/xtx seconds. Ultimately, we ended up spending the extra money on the identical firsts for a number of reasons:

1. All our regs use the same rebuild kits, easing the burden(both financial and in the dive kit box) of keeping multiples of different kits on hand. The need to purchase and stock different kits for the deco regs would have eaten up some of the savings.

2. Universal usability. With the increasing number of regs involved in any dive trip comes the possibility that one or more may not be functioning properly. By standardizing we are able to, and have, swapped regs around to allow dives to take place that otherwise may have been cancelled. We can always move an O2 clean deco reg to backgas or stage use. And, if you keep your intermediate deco reg(s) O2 clean, you can move them to Oxygen use if need be.

3. The discussion about time spent on the regs and depth vs performance. When we looked closely at the dive profiles we are participating in and what we are likely to participate in over the next few years, we found that in fact: We will be spending as much or even more time on our deco regs than on our backgas regs. We decided that adjustables would allow us to crank in to prevent any freeflows, and still allow us to ease them out for very easy breathing characteristics when in use. Something we all seemed to like compared with the trade off of tuning a non adjustable to either resist freeflow or breath well.

That's pretty much how we came to our decision. However, as pointed out by others, there are points in favor of the other course: Very durable, simply flow by pistons. Relative inexpensiveness, specially when compared to what we spend on our service kits, etc.

It largely boils down to your team, the dives you're doing, and the realitive cost associated with missed dives vs initial expenditure, etc.

 

[nereas]

Just curious, but what agency is 140fsw 30/30. All the guys I dive with (multiple agency tech certs) use 120fsw on 30/25. I know 30/30 is a common mix (along with 32) for 0-100fsw dives, but never heard of it for a standard deco gas (not that it couldn't be used in place of 30/25). Like I said, just wondering what agency suggests this gas/depth combo for deco, because I thought all agencies where pretty standard when it came to this type of diving.

"Standard deco gas."

No such thing on Earth, if your instructor taught you how to think for yourself.

Get a copy of V-Planner and play with it, and it will teach you that there are many options that are far superior to anything currently labelled as "standard deco gas."

Technical anything (including diving) is a lot like the scene in Pirates 1, where Johnny Depp as Capt Jack Sparrow explains to Orlando Bloom as Will Turner, "The only rules that matter are these -- what a man can do, and what a man cannot do. Now me, I can let you drown, but I cannot bring this ship into Tortugas all by me one-sie. And you, you can either accept that your father was a pirate and a good man, or you can't, but you will have to square with that yourself one day, because pirate is in your blood, boy."

If there ever was such a thing as "standard deco gas" and no pirates, then we would all still be breathing EAN 80 and EAN 36 because of someone like yourself insisting that it was standard deco gas. Make sense?

 

[nereas]

...

Just curious, since it's not really in the running right now, but in case it should be: How does the Scubapro MK2 Plus/R295 compare to the AquaLung Calypso? Better, worse, same?

I went with ScubaPro exclusively simply because the 2 best gear technicians at the 2 best tech stores where I live are ScubaPro experts. And they are also the people who first suggested to me that your O2 bottle and your argon bottle do not need exclusive high performance regs.

In your area, with Tobin, you could go feasibly with any set of regs that he is good at repairing. I am guessing he can do anything. He is very well known, both among his friends as well as among his enemies.

I have 2 of Tobin's backplates myself, so he is in my friend category.

To answer your question directly, probably any reg works fine at 20 fsw. How could it not? That is practically a swimming pool depth!

 

[Tim Greaves]

I personally use an Apeks DS4/XTX50 for my deco reg., Works great and it doesnt cost all that much..