DIR- GUE Reflections on Fundamentals

[Lorenzoid]

A little bit of clarification is needed; I think. I thought a student had 6 months to "pass" the rec or tec pass. From some of my friends who don't have a GUE instructor closely, this 6 month period is a real obstacle given the difficulty in passing the course on round 1.

If the outcome of a course is a "provisional pass," the student has 6 months to return and try to pass.

 

[CptTightPants21]

A little bit of clarification is needed; I think. I thought a student had 6 months to "pass" the rec or tec pass. From some of my friends who don't have a GUE instructor closely, this 6 month period is a real obstacle given the difficulty in passing the course on round 1.

Yes, six months to do a 1/2 or 1 day fundies evaluation and earn either a rec or tech pass. Anything over six months requires the student to take the course again. It used to be the student had to retake the full 4 day course, with the split of Fundies into Part 1 (3 days) and Part 2 (2 Days) it might actually be possible to just need to take the two day fundies 2 again. Earning a recreational pass creates no time limit on upgrading it to a tech pass and is 100% at the student's availability and discretion.

The six month window can be difficult for people who don't have an instructor near by. I took fundies knowing if I failed I would not be able to get another go within the six month window. I use the opportunity to practice and take it with a different instructor.

The six month window is as much to protect the student as it is to protect the agency and instructor

1. It protects the agency by creating a tight timeframe for instruction and insures that the whole class--the classroom instruction, the skill, and techniques are all current. In our minds we automatically assume a person will be taking the course 7 months later--what about a longer time frame. The GUE fundies of five years ago is not 100% identical to the GUE fundies of today.

2. Protects the student going forward with other GUE classes. A student 'might' have improved their skills enough to get through a tech pass in fundies. As stated above, there is a large knowledge base of techniques and calculations that are taught in fundies that are needed for Tech 1 and Cave 1. Furthermore, there is a small window where a student earns a tech pass, but the skills might not be 100% ready for a Tech 1/Cave 1 which has new skills on top of additional task loading. Spending $2,000+ on a Cave 1 or Tech 1 course only to bomb out sucks for all parties involved. I have heard somewhere between 10-20% of students fail Tech 1/Cave 1 courses--mostly from earning the tech pass and then not diving as the same skill level for a while and then expecting to just walk right in to a higher level class.

Overall, I think a lot of people would agree the six month window is strict, but fair.

 

[DiveDay]

If the outcome of a course is a "provisional pass," the student has 6 months to return and try to pass.

This is correct - one small detail is the course registration fee from GUE itself appears to be valid for 9 months so I only paid it once despite taking the class twice. It's only 95 USD saved but still, it was something.

It is my understanding that provisional is a very narrow rating, you can only be marginal on one skill so it's super close to a pass. I think most instructors would try hard to push you to a rec pass instead so you're not subject to the 6 month limit.

Overall, I think a lot of people would agree the six month window is strict, but fair.

The instructors I had effectively said it would be better if a tech pass also had a limited validity time window to begin tech training, for the exact same reasons you mentioned.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
It is my understanding that provisional is a very narrow rating, you can only be marginal on one skill so it's super close to a pass. I think most instructors would try hard to push you to a rec pass instead so you're not subject to the 6 month limit.

I don't know what the threshold for a provisional is, but I know I was pretty awful in a variety of skills. However, it could be that all my awfulness was rooted in the skill of achieving stability. I could stay still, but with any kind of task loading--S-drill, valve drill, SMB deployment, etc.--I'd fly away. With 10 or so more hours of bottom time, practicing staying still while task loaded, I returned and got the rec pass. It certainly would have been logistically challenging if my instructor were not relatively local to me.

 

[DiveDay]

The frustrations remind me of my own Fundies course report, which you may have read

In fact I did and thank you for writing it! Seeing that I wasn't the only to struggle was a big motivator throughout the journey.

You didn't ask for opinions, but I would suggest aiming for Tech 1, as I am, even if you consider yourself a recreational diver. As you said, find more buddies, build more skills. Keep in mind you don't need to use all the capacity you're taught. I don't plan to ever do really deep dives, but some of those amazing wrecks are just beyond the edge of rec depths. I'd say consider Rec 3 (GUE's version of "rec deep"), but ... I was tempted to try that route but ultimately decided it would only be a stopgap, and Tech 1 is where you get the full toolbox.

I'm totally open to opinions, just ran out of breath to type more! I totally get where you're coming from but my opinion is it never quite ends! Tech 1 gives you a lot of tools for sure, but there's always another great site or wreck just beyond your current certification. One of the local instructors is organizing dives next month on a Great Lakes wreck that's at 200ft, just past Tech 1. A legendary tech dive here in the St Lawrence is the Jodrey, at 170 ft limit of Tech 1 you just get to barely see its superstructure, the real action is at 200ft+ in ripping current.

After fundies I've only had a few dives with the pandemic and all, but there were two occasions on what are widely accepted local recreational dives that made me eat some humble pie. Last year I lost control of my drysuit on a drift dive and ended up holding onto rocks in the current upside down, it was unpleasant. A week ago I briefly got my primary light cord tangled on a rope while holding on against the current. My buddy rushed over and fixed it in a few seconds, but it made me really think about how even a tiny mistake or lapse can have pretty serious consequences once you're in the tech territory. I really think there is such a thing as too much too quickly and I know my limits.

If you are saying you believe Fundies does not really fit double-tank rec diving very well, I agree.

I actually love double AL80s for local dives! The whole rig is easy to carry and set up, and no need to switch tanks or mess with cam bands or weight pouches and you have twice the gas! And of course, no local GUE diver dives single tank here so you kinda have to fit in. But yes, it is effectively treated as one big tank.

One of the "Eureka!" moments during my fundies training was doing the gas calculations for a local dive to 100ft. I became convinced the typical rec charter single AL80 bounce dives done on local wrecks are totally unsafe. No wonder you have to ascend at 60ft/min, you'll run out of gas if you don't. Good luck if you have to gas share. Doubles make me feel way better about such dives since the math checks out beforehand.

 

[CptTightPants21]

This is correct - one small detail is the course registration fee from GUE itself appears to be valid for 9 months so I only paid it once despite taking the class twice. It's only 95 USD saved but still, it was something.

It is my understanding that provisional is a very narrow rating, you can only be marginal on one skill so it's super close to a pass. I think most instructors would try hard to push you to a rec pass instead so you're not subject to the 6 month limit.

The instructors I had effectively said it would be better if a tech pass also had a limited validity time window to begin tech training, for the exact same reasons you mentioned.

While I understand where the instructors are coming from, you would get some push back from that requirement and it would do more to hurt GUE than advance its goals. GUE has high standards and a certain mindset, but they are not immune to market forces. CCR 1 and CCR 2 is a direct example--they saw too many students earn Tech 1 and then go on to do CCR training outside of GUE because the students weren't willing to spend 4K on a Tech 2 course they didn't plan to utilize. Outside of GUE, CDS had a similar issue with their intro/apprentice/full cave curriculum. There used to be a one year time window to earn your full cave certification, CDS was losing students to all the other agencies--IANTD, TDI, etc that did not have have the one year time window. I had a large block of time between my fundies and my other GUE courses--I was still taking difficult courses with demanding instructors, I just wasn't in the GUE ecosphere. When I did eventually take upper level GUE courses, there wasn't much of a learning curve. I am not sure I would have gone through GUE if I knew there was a time limit, I am already annoyed enough about the expiring certification cards--Nothing like seeing a GUE Tech 2/Cave 2 instructor get turned away from Ginnie because his card "expired".

All the ratings in GUE are fairly wide when you think about it, every once in a while you might see a little thumb on the scale for rec over provision for the reasons you stated and because in the instructors mind, you aren't going anywhere in GUE with the rec pass. You will still need to practice and improve if you want to move on to more challenging courses, but in the mean time you get to feel good about 'passing'.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@DiveDay,

An excellent writeup and your perspective on your experience is interesting. This is definitely valuable for people considering taking fundies themselves.

 

[Ski_Lounge]

Indeed, thanks for excellent detailed report @DiveDay. I'm headed to my (first?) fundies in a couple weeks. I had an internal debate if I'm going in rather early for fundies (in my diving career; I have ~50 dives), but I felt very reassured by my instructor that it's better to do fundies early on.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I will say people get too caught up with earning a pass. It is only relevant if you wish to continue down the GUE path. Otherwise treat the course as a foundation of practice for dramatically improving basic diving skills.

 

[PfcAJ]

Very much like my path into GUE I recognize all the frustration, not being able to meet the standards, etc. It took me some more years after Fundies to really appreciate what I have learned from Fundies. In retrospect, I would not have missed one second of it. It increased my pleasure in diving in so many levels I don't even know where to begin.

Having said that, I have decided not to do any further GUE training. I want to get into rebreather diving and find GUE's path (Tech1 and then franken breather ) not to my liking. However, I am glad I did persevere with achieving Fundies Tech.

Curious about the frankenbreather comment.

seems like you can either put the bailout on your back or put it on your sides. Not really much difference otherwise.