Redundant buoyancy in warm weather

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That doesn't sound like a very good solution then. Only moderate current and you have issues with it? The whole point of this thread is to determine the best solution for redundant buoyancy. That's the problem I have with lift bags: they become sails when deployed.

Yeah, this is not making sense to me either....if I am deploying a lift bag/SMB, it is while freely drifting, so relatively speaking--there is NO current....at least there should not be much change in current direction between 50 feet and the surface.....and if I wanted a float showing where we were while still deep on a tech dive, we would be towing a torpedo float ( ideally with a scooter--but easily hooked off on a wreck even without a scooter--then un-hooked as we ascent)...which of course removes the whole deployment issue.
 
Honestly, I am not trying to be a jerk

I didn't think you were. I'm lacking experience in this realm....I was just clarifying.

None of my diving has been below 140ft, and I haven't planned a dive realistically below that....as I've had no need to yet.
 
A shell drysuit over almost no undergarments is downright dreamy to dive. I haven't used a wetsuit in 5 years or more, even in 80F water.
 
Yeah, this is not making sense to me either.
The problem with the internet is when a local perspective gets extrapolated to everyone, everywhere. People make blanket statements about what is or is not appropriate that they expect to apply universally, simply because it applies to them. On top of that, you get a few "exceptions" that want to be the rule. Kev has some sort of glandular problem that precludes him from using a dry suit. He's going to have to find a solution that will work for him in the places he dives that does not include a dry suit. You have to deal with some exceptionally high currents that, according to you, also precludes dry suits. Two exceptions and two people claiming that dry suits are a poor choice for most or all people in tropical climates. It's not complete shenanigans, but it's close.

Exposure protection is an extremely personal choice. It's important that we use what we are comfortable with and that it fits within the parameters of our dive. For those of us who want to be pro-active with our safety, diving with a non-balanced rig requires redundant buoyancy of some sort. That or you're doing some kind of a trust me dive where you're doing nothing but trusting to blind luck. I've avoided dry suits because of my unusually large hands. I don't think that everyone should avoid them simply because my paws don't fit.

So no, I don't buy the one size fits all mantra you and Kev are selling. I don't think two or even three exceptions make the rule.
 
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That doesn't sound like a very good solution then. Only moderate current and you have issues with it? The whole point of this thread is to determine the best solution for redundant buoyancy. That's the problem I have with lift bags: they become sails when deployed.

Yeah, this is not making sense to me either....if I am deploying a lift bag/SMB, it is while freely drifting, so relatively speaking--there is NO current....at least there should not be much change in current direction between 50 feet and the surface.....and if I wanted a float showing where we were while still deep on a tech dive, we would be towing a torpedo float ( ideally with a scooter--but easily hooked off on a wreck even without a scooter--then un-hooked as we ascent)...which of course removes the whole deployment issue.
NO! I'm not talking about floating a Liftbag all the way to the surface from a particular depth and just hanging on to the deployed spool & line hauling yourself up: I'm talking about inflating & deploying --AT DEPTH-- and using the LIftbag as REDUNDANT BUOYANCY in case your primary wing fails. In this case, you are clipped-on to the Liftbag & manually controlling the Liftbag's dump valve to assist in ascending to your deco stop depths and ultimately to surface.

The problem with the internet is when a local perspective gets extrapolated to everyone, everywhere. People make blanket statements about what is or is not appropriate that they expect to apply universally, simply because it applies to them. On top of that, you get a few "exceptions" that want to be the rule. Kev has some sort of glandular problem that precludes him from using a dry suit. He's going to have to find a solution that will work for him in the places he dives that does not include a dry suit. You have to deal with some exceptionally high currents that, according to you, also precludes dry suits. Two exceptions and two people claiming that dry suits are a poor choice for most or all people in tropical climates. It's not complete shenanigans, but it's close.

Exposure protection is an extremely personal choice. It's important that we use what we are comfortable with and that it fits within the parameters of our dive. For those of us who want to be pro-active with our safety, diving with a non-balanced rig requires redundant buoyancy of some sort. That or you're doing some kind of a trust me dive where you're doing nothing but trusting to blind luck. I've avoided dry suits because of my unusually large hands. I don't think that everyone should avoid them simply because my paws don't fit.

So no, I don't buy the one size fits all mantra you and Kev are selling. I don't think two or even three exceptions make the rule.
Pete . . .you just go on & keep calling your "shenanigans" on a tropical locale & divesites that I've been on OC Scuba since before Thanksgiving; and "shenanigans" on a mid-Pacific atoll roughly 15k miles away from you, which you have never visited & never dove deep tech at. . .
 
I'm talking about inflating & deploying --AT DEPTH--
Does it matter? A fail is a fail. You didn't feel up to the task to even try. Either way, it doesn't seem to be a viable solution for you.

Pete . . .you just go on & keep calling your "shenanigans" on a tropical locale & divesites that I've been on OC Scuba since before Thanksgiving; and "shenanigans" on a mid-Pacific atoll roughly 15k miles away from you, which you have never visited & never dove deep tech at. . .
You realise that I live in Key Largo. See, it's not just about Truk (or you)... it's about all tropical locations as well as many sub-tropical locations. You've made some passionate appeals as to whey your way is the only way, and that's just shenanigans in everyone's book but yours. What's right for you just isn't right for everyone else.
 
Does it matter? A fail is a fail. You didn't feel up to the task to even try. Either way, it doesn't seem to be a viable solution for you..
Yes it does matter Pete: Decided not to practice deploying it so my boatman wouldn't have chase after me all over the Lagoon/Atoll for recovery in the current, so I stayed hanging on to the mooring line (isn't that mighty inconsiderate of you Pete to suggest otherwise and make causal ascriptions from 15,000 miles away about a dive you've never done and a place you've never been to while ridiculously implying similarity to "Key Largo Florida"?)

You realise that I live in Key Largo. See, it's not just about Truk (or you)... it's about all tropical locations as well as many sub-tropical locations. You've made some passionate appeals as to whey your way is the only way, and that's just shenanigans in everyone's book but yours. What's right for you just isn't right for everyone else.
Never said my way was the only correct way Pete: don't put words "in my posts". I might have criticized & derided those -maybe harshly- (i.e. "basting in iyour sweat" by drysuit diving in the tropics) who choose to dive dry, but only asserted that diving wet for me is a more comfortable & applicable solution for thermal considerations in the ambient heat of the tropics. Period.

San Francisco Maru: 59m/51m ave for 45min Bottom Time; 130min Total Run Time.
Air temperature a humid 34deg C; Water temp a wonderfully "cool" 30deg C.
 
10 commandments of logic.jpg

Meanwhile, back at the OP...

It's really not impossible to dive balanced and wet in the tropics, unless you're carrying an insane amount of tanks. I'm barely buoyant at the surface in a 3/2 wetsuit, but I can swim twinned AL80s and two AL80 deco slings up, even wearing a steel back plate. If your buoyancy failure occurs at the start of the dive and your twins are full, you have little or no deco obligation, so consider one of those slings ditchable weight if you have to. I'll drop a tank before I'll drown... If it's later in the dive, your twins aren't going to be that negative, cos you'll have used gas. If you're using stages, you breathe them first anyway, so if anything they become a buoyancy source as long as you're using AL80s. Often, too, if you use AL80s for deco gas, they won't be much more than half full at the start of the dive unless you're doing something really big, so again, not that negative. Notice how many times 'AL80' crops up in that? Balanced always has to be the starting point, because even if you want to use one of the other solutions, it's easier if your rig is balanced.

For a little added comfort and ease, I do carry a couple of liftbags, and I do practice ascents using a liftbag as a hand-held buoyancy device every now and then. Had to do it for real once, too, having had my wing let go at 180 feet. It's not really a biggie, although your arms get a bit tired towards the end of a longish deco ascent. In a pinch, an SMB will work - you just have to hold the top and the bottom in one hand so that the dump valve is at the top of the loop you've created. Done that, too, although only in practice. Less tiring than climbing a line under a surfaced bag, that's for sure.

If I'm diving sidemount, I like to use Catalina C95 alloys. Horrible tanks under any other circumstances, but they trim out beautifully SM and don't go 'butt light' until they're down to less than 1/4 full, which I'm mostly aiming not to get to. Heavy, though, so I do use an SMS100D dual-bladder rig, although in part that's just because someone sold it to me cheap... I've grown quite fond of it, though. The second inflator is not hooked up - it's perfectly easy to orally inflate if you need it. On the other hand, the wife uses a Dive Rite XT and I've seen her comfortably inflate and use an SMB in a practice failed-buoyancy ascent while sidemounting heavy C95s.

Not that I've got any objection to tropical wetsuits, though. I'd love to get one, mostly to get away from salt-water chafing when hanging about in a wetsuit all day as well as for redundant buoyancy, but it's regularly pointed out to me that there are plenty of other things I could usefully spend the money on and nappy-rash ointment is cheap!

Hmm. Looks like I either do or happily would use all of the apparently exclusive possible solutions to a buoyancy failure, in varying combinations. Does that make me evil?

I'd post a profile since it seems to be the fashion, but all I did today was 25 minutes at 48m to see how the shark population is doing along a stretch that got pretty badly fished a few years back. It wasn't a very interesting dive, unless your idea of fun is being chased along the base of a wall by a bunch of over-curious Grey Whalers. Which, actually, is my idea of fun. Oh, and look, I got to post a profile, too. :)
 
Yes it does matter Pete: Decided not to practice deploying it so my boatman wouldn't have chase after me all over the Lagoon
Again, that doesn't sound like an appropriate solution to me. If you can't finish the dive under a modicum of control then it's a fail in my book. If I were you, I would be seeking a different, more robust solution and not getting all butt hurt that someone thinks you could do better.


Never said my way was the only correct way Pete: don't put words "in my posts". I might have criticized & derided those -maybe harshly-
Make up your mind. If your way was not the only correct way, just why did you deride those who do things differently so harshly? You posture, you boast and you unduly criticize from 15,000 miles away and you expect us to just take it because it's you? Again, I will have to call
:gans:

I'd post a profile since it seems to be the fashion,
It's a fashion of one in this thread. It's completely inappropriate and nothing but an appeal to authority by Kev trying to establish his street creds. He thinks that just because he's doing these dives in (gasp) Truk Lagoon, that we would all realize that he really must know what he's talking about. He even adds the condescending and harsh criticisms to give the allusion that he's a real playa and not someone to be trifled with. Simple braggadocio does not make someone right, no matter how arrogant they might be to think otherwise. It's kind of ironic that he feels free to dish out harsh criticism but can't accept any that is constructive.
 
As you guys know, my typical plan is a free floating ascent, with absolutely no boat mooring or anchor line...So we either shoot a bag on leaving the wreck for ascent, or, we hooked off a torpedo on first getting to the wreck, and then unhooked it at the end of the dive--and it is now drifting with us..... However, IF I for some reason....who knows what....decided to do a tech dive down a mooring line...in a drift current....it would NOT be desirable to shoot a bag or SMB and then have to fight with it from it's drag for the rest of the deco....that would include not playing redundant lift device with the bag, as Kev indicated was his desire. That would be either a free drift drill, or a zero current drill.....Of course, I don't believe in redundant buoyancy devices, because I am not a hard hat diver, and I can always swim up to the surface with my skin diving gear. I think some of these tech schools are confused about whether they are making skin divers .....or hard hat divers in need of elevators to reach the surface :)
 
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