Redesigning AOW

[pir8]

I forgot to about air sharing drills

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think teaching rescue as it's currently being taught requires you to already have your own dive skills down so that you can concentration of rescueing someone else. I don't know that it could be taught to a new diver very effectively. You have to be able to dive yourself before you can rescue anyone else.

What you describe is a problem with teaching rescue skills but requiring AOW as a prereq doesn't solve it.

I see lots of people here who think the rescue class is good. It does include some good topics but it has some MAJOR flaws that prevent me from thinking it's much of a class. The biggest flaw is the lack of performance requirements. Students see rescue techniques and get to try them but they don't have to be any good at them. Part of the problem is that so many students come into the class without basic dive skills.

Face it, it's pretty hard to perform a very good search if the students can't swim along without silting up the dive site. Hand them a rope to use in a search and they might knit a sweater with them tied up in the middle of it. Having divers surface an unresponsive diver when they can't hardly surface themselves without the help of a line is folly.

No, the problem with this couarse is that exact same as with all the other courses...the course assumes that certain dive skills were developed in the entry level class but those skills aren't required there either. They just keep adding junk on top of junk.

 

[pir8]

Hey Mike do you actually dive anymore or just complain about others that do?

 

[tedj01]

Don't forget you have to all of this for less than $125 - $150 and even then its way too expensive - plus that should cover all expenses including gear rental, boat fees, whatever - would be nice for it to include lunch/dinner as well. Especially after having to pay that outrageously expensive OW class of $250.

Plus you should be able to do all prework at shop (lectures, everything) at time of sign-up. Need to hurry too, I've got another appointment in 30 minutes and its a 45 minute drive to get there.

Also, on Day 1, when told we will show up at dive site for the day's training at noon. We will do 3 dives on Day 1 - including night dive. Day 2 -we'll meet at 8am. Student interrupts with question.

"Oh, good we'll be finished by 4 then, right? You can get is done by then, ok? Can we do the night dive first; I really want to do a night dive. I heard they are really cool. But getting finished at 3pm would work a lot better for me. Then I'd have time to get a haircut. I have a party to go to tonight, it starts at five and its going to be really good. Hope the cops don't show up again at 5 am and try to break it up!!! I guess I may have time for breakfast before 8am meet time if I leave the party early, if not I'll just have another beer on the way. Don't worry if I'm a few minutes late. The boat won't mind waiting. But 10am would really be better; can you call everyone else and reschedule. Oh, don't forget the boat....."

So figure doing the class in a total of 6 - 7 hours. People do have lives you know.

 

[raymond phule]

The main problem for me is that the courses are in principle mandatory.

I have no problem paying money for a course I belive is a good one. I have problem paying money for a mandatory course that is not a good course.

My OW course was crap, the book was basic and I didn't like the style and I have no material for things important where I dive.

AOW doesn't seem like a good course in the way it is mostly tought.

The dive industry is mainly for resort divers with no sport background that dives a couple of times after the course to see some fish. It is definitely not for people that wants to be good divers and dive a lot.

 

[b1gcountry]

BTW, I've heard a lot of reference to requiring more Buoyancy and Navigation Dives. What's the problem with this? These aren't special circumstance dives you can do one day and not the next, these are basic skills. Every dive needs to be a Buoyancy dive, and EVERY DIVE needs to be a navigation dive. These are skills you use every time you are diving.

Tom

 

[jimdiverman]

The main problem for me is that the courses are in principle mandatory.

I have no problem paying money for a course I belive is a good one. I have problem paying money for a mandatory course that is not a good course.

My OW course was crap, the book was basic and I didn't like the style and I have no material for things important where I dive.

AOW doesn't seem like a good course in the way it is mostly tought.

The dive industry is mainly for resort divers with no sport background that dives a couple of times after the course to see some fish. It is definitely not for people that wants to be good divers and dive a lot.

Raymond, if I thought you were capable of learning anything from me I would teach you about the learning ladder and the sea of bliss you are swimming in, but I don't think I will waste my time. I will just tell you that you are unconsciously unskilled, and leave it at that.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

I am lucky enough to have the available class time and freedom in my agency to try to do something about it. Here's the basic outline of the class I teach at the local college (the only AOW format I teach):
8 classroom sessions up to 1.5-2 hours each (we use the NAUI Master Diver text)
2 hour Pool session to review basic skills--I nabbed some skill stuff from the DIR Fundies book too. This lets me see what I have to work with in terms of student skills if I wasn't their OW instructor.
We dive 5 days and students have to accrue 400 minutes of bottom time while doing various activities since quarries are the only sites that fit in our budget. Students end up with 12-15 dives over the course with some getting as many as 24 by volunteering to help with make-up dives.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The dive industry is mainly for resort divers with no sport background that dives a couple of times after the course to see some fish. It is definitely not for people that wants to be good divers and dive a lot.

I dunno about that ... I've managed almost 1,900 dives since getting OW certified in March 2001 ... and the "dive industry" is largely responsible for getting me involved in diving. I've got a drawer full of c-cards from several agencies. Some of them were more worthwhile than others ... but in every case what I took from the class had as much to do with what I put into it as it did the choice of agency or instructor.

Did I learn everything I need to know from those classes ??? Certainly not ... some of my most important skills were learned through diving with mentors who were willing to put hours of bottom time in helping me perfect skills that I was merely introduced to in course I took ... as well as some very important knowledge that I never learned in a classroom. And I'll be the first to admit that there's a vast pool of knowledge about diving that I have yet to learn.

But without that YMCA, NAUI, TDI, GUE, and IANTD training, I wouldn't even have had a clue what knowledge to pursue.

In the end, the "dive industry" offers you ... the consumer ... a range of products and services. The quality of those products and services varies wildly ... depending on your choice of agency, class, and instructor to learn from. What you take away from it is ultimately up to how much you're willing to put into it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[raymond phule]

Raymond, if I thought you were capable of learning anything from me I would teach you about the learning ladder and the sea of bliss you are swimming in, but I don't think I will waste my time. I will just tell you that you are unconsciously unskilled, and leave it at that.

Are you serious? Where did I say anything at all about my skill level and if am consciosly about that?

Was it anything controversial at all in my post?