Redesigning AOW

[amitsi]

Thoughts?

Nav
Night
Deep
Nitrox
Buoyancy

Should be a must

And not only skills, theory should also be taught...Its surprising how many people don't know about o2 toxicity or narcosis....:11:

Compulsory skills to be done again should be Mask Removal Replacement & OOA CESA

 

[amitsi]

I would require a minimum number of dives prior to AOW, maybe 30 or more.

.

Completely disagree you will have people doing night and deep dives way before they reach their 30th dive so not a good idea :no

 

[BabyDuck]

A rescue diver class is probably the best and most important class you can take for your own safety. You will learn almost nothing to better YOUR diving from the divemaster or Instructor certifications (which might come later). Call the Rescue diver class whatever you want, but it should definitely scare you a little when you realize how hard it is to truely help someone and it should also improve your confidence and ability to deal with a screwed up situation in the water. A GOOD rescue class is very useful, especially because all too many of us would never really learn or practice the stuff if we were not forced to by the class.

yes, but does it teach anything advanced about *diving*?

from the outside not having taken it, i see it would be a valuable class, but not an advanced diving class.

 

[Teamcasa]

I agree with many in that there is nothing magic about getting an AOW ticket from PADI.
Lynne has done an eloquent job of describing a new course. However, in reality PADI will never adopt it.

For me, I’ve always thought there was a market for qualified instructors to sell a class that does what Lynne describes and maybe a bit more. They could issue certificates of completion but the real reward is getting some quality time with a quality instructor. I, for one, would love to spend a few dives with a real pro that has good teaching skills. We can all get better.

Lastly, forget all of the “they should have xx number of dives before….”. Every diver’s skill set is different. Some learn and adapt more quickly than others

 

[amascuba]

I agree with many in that there is nothing magic about getting an AOW ticket from PADI.
Lynne has done an eloquent job of describing a new course. However, in reality PADI will never adopt it.

For me, I’ve always thought there was a market for qualified instructors to sell a class that does what Lynne describes and maybe a bit more. They could issue certificates of completion but the real reward is getting some quality time with a quality instructor. I, for one, would love to spend a few dives with a real pro that has good teaching skills. We can all get better.

Lastly, forget all of the “they should have xx number of dives before….”. Every diver’s skill set is different. Some learn and adapt more quickly than others

PADI doesn't have to adopt the course that TSandM described, because it's well within the standards that PADI has listed for the AOW course. It's falls more on the instructors shoulders to teach a good course in this instance.

 

[LowVizWiz]

It seems as though it's a pretty common thing, to see people criticizing their AOW class as not providing very much actual learning.
Thoughts?

TS&M, If the goal is to create better & safer divers, I don't think you can fix AOW without fixing OW first. I would love to see the percentage of OW divers who move on to AOW.

I would also go as far as saying that those who move on to AOW want more training but You just don't know what you don't know!

As far as the name goes, it means absolutely nothing! We read too much into names. Do we trust Joe Divemaster with our lives just 'cause he's a "divemaster" I don't! Sure we expect a certain level of proficiency out of a dive professional, but how many posts do we see here in SB about how incompetent the dm on boat x was. Even better are the zero to hero threads! If changing the name would fix the problem then I'm all for it... It does not!

That's as bogus as a requirement of a certain number of "ocean dives", how about quarries or lakes do they not count? Are they less challenging for a diver? Do they not help the diver develop skills needed to become a better and safer diver?
That would be equivalent to saying, I can't train you until you know what you don't know... go find out for yourself and I hope you make it!

The latest DAN report shows that of 57 fatalities that happened last year 45% were certified one year or less. I really hope you make it past those required dives with the non-training you received, if you do come see me again!

Okay so I didn't provide any answers... my only suggestion would be to change the way it's done completely! Maybe offer Resort Certification which would allow you to dive under supervision and a true OW Certification which would encompass the current OW+AOW(including the many suggestions here)+Rescue!

It would cost an arm an a leg and probably reduce the number of divers as well.
It's not an easy fix.

Wys.

 

[TSandM]

Well, my husband and I have gone around more times than I can count about the OW class, but the bottom line is and will remain that the class has to be short and cheap, because most people who take it are only going to dive on their honeymoon. Or they're like me, people who aren't even sure they want to dive in the first place.

But AOW is a little different, because now you have someone who has taken his class, done his honeymoon dives, and still wants to dive some more and learn some more. At that point, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that you could actually give the class some teeth? You now have a motivated student, who could be introduced to better technique, higher standards, and a more adult approach to diving theory.

I was trying to come up with a modification of the existing class that could be taught within standards, and with no major increase in time or resources (eg. avoiding pool rental), but would do a better job of imparting actual information and skills than my AOW did. To me, the skills dive and the PPB dive would be the springboard for working into the other dives, incorporating the improved buoyancy and even some emergency procedures in varying diving environments.

 

[Buoyant1]

My opinion is that it should be called OW part II as opposed to Advanced...I think there should be a means for a part III and then some.

To quote the caveat emptor of a popular dive magazine, "A good diver is always learning" And I think the more you learn the better you become.

As a course, I think that the 'elective' part is a bit too unstructured. Nav is good (but not over-stated as it should probably be, it's a necessary evil) Deep is good (but again, one deep dive to just over 60 feet is a tad understated) Peak Buoyancy should be a part of OW 1, but a required part nonetheless.

I would much rather see those three done as TWO dives each, and have a bit more to do with them, than have 5 modules of which just seem to run through and not develop. THEN take elective dives as part of OW III! (and then run that into Rescue with the option to go to either "master diver" or the Divemaster course)

Being that I took AOW two years after my basic OW, I was "phoning" it in for Deep (been there a few times) and night (ditto) and they were pretty much just fun dives for me. PPB was a good module, and I want more (and will take the FULL course if I can get them to offer it next summer) as well as the DEEP specialty. I just took a wreck specialty and enjoyed it immensely...4 dives all different, it was a lot of fun!

I had approximately 30-40 dives between my OW and AOW, and feel I learned more from experience than the course (although I did pick up some tips from all of the modules...hard NOT to do)

It does need a bit of "tweaking" but I think there is a need for the continuing education part of it all!

 

[Buoyant1]

yes, but does it teach anything advanced about *diving*?

from the outside not having taken it, i see it would be a valuable class, but not an advanced diving class.

But when you really look at it...what did OW really teach you about DIVING? In my opinion, it gave you the basics of how to use the equipment, and how to not KILL yourself as easily as you can, as well as give you problem management skills, but did it teach you the basic skills that you have to master? Buoyancy, gas management, technique? (i.e. alternate fin kicks) I learned that by diving...and diving with people that were willing to give me constructive criticism (and I was willing to take it) but the basic OW course did not really give me that....(as well as the AOW course didn't really make me FEEL like an advanced diver as much as my experience did)

Granted it's HARD to become a proficient diver (let alone advanced) with 6 pool session, 4 open water dives, then 5 more open water dives. the 30+ dives I made between those two courses paid off DIVIDENDS! The 10 dives I just made on my recent vacation were a HUGE education since they were done in adverse conditions (winds and current weren't optimum) and that can only be gained by experience!

Unless you DO it, how can you train to get on a 37 ton boat that's jumping in the chop? You just have to experience it, and hope you don't get too many black and blue marks!

 

[hammerhead45]

I offer a comprehinsive AOW worth the money Home no complaints so far