Recreational versus technical diving

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Walter
BTW, your defination is far from universally accepted.

...it certainly doesn't bother me.

Folks *bragging* doesn't bother me either unless it is someone bragging about how deep they dive on air or other such nonsense that might encourage someone else to do something stupid and die.

And that actually is the reason for the recreational/technical distinction... artificial though it may be... it serves notice that this is something not be entered into lightly or unadvisedly... but soberly and with respect.

If you look at my post you should be able to discern in it a subtle warning to those who might be so inclined to push past the recreational limits unequipped to do so...

Deeper than the standard recreational depth of 130 and/or the NDL inolves technicalities not covered in BOW or AOW... deco obligations become a pressing reality and the training and equipment to handle those technicalities is exponentially greater than what the recreational diver has hithertofore be called upon to consider. There is a line between recreational and technical because the the move from one to the other cannot be taken incrementally with the additional of a little training or a piece of equipment. There is a huge shift in the way these dives need to be done to be safe... and that shift deserves to be demarked with a change of designation.... ego just has to take a back seat on this one.

It is not about who is better... (you are a respected member of this diving community - and that has nothing to do with rec or tech)... the lines are there to protect people... don't seek to erase them just to spare the egos of recreational divers who might feel badly about themselves because someone else is a technical diver. Shoot most of the time I am a recreational diver doing recreational dives... and I don't feel bad about myself because of it. And I don't feel better about myself when I do technical dives.

Sorry, I just couldn't let this one go unanswered:

You can be an expert caver (technical by your definition), but if you've never been in the ocean you'll need additional training to safely dive in rough seas (recreational by your defination).

Who do you think has a better chance of survival without additional training or equipment... an experience cave diver in rough OW for the first time.... or an AOW diver with thousands of ocean dives embarking upon his first cave dive?

 

[MikeS]

For whatever it's worth, I vote for Rick's definition:

Technical Diving starts "at the point beyond which you can no longer safely perform a controlled emergency swimming ascent, too deep, too long, physical overhead - whatever the reason. "

It's simple, yet elegant and unambiguous.

That point is also the personal limit that I’ve set for myself at least at this point in my training and experience.

Mike

 

[Diversauras]

What he said (in all his inputs).

The term "Recreational" is probably in use because of the use of the term "Technical", 20 years ago we were scuba divers, some were commercial because they made a living at it.

All the jargon, DIR, Technical / recreational and sooooooo many more are just like the catch prhases used in corporate America and IMHO classify as "Flavor of the month".

Too may dives to make, too little time. I don't have time for snobs, whiners and cliques. I have been known to help and I have asked for help from divers I have just met. I have asked about unique gear configurations and I have had folks poke fun at my antiques, but avoiding or snubbing divers who don't fit certain terms and equipment configs is beyond me. I just do it for fun...

 

[Scuba]

All recreational dives demand some technical expertise in order to be performed correctly and safely. The level and type of technical knowledge necessary is dependent on the environmental demands for each situation. Its a matter of degrees or categories if you prefer.

To dive you need certain specific knowledge and equipment, same for cave diving, wreck, deep, etc. One is not better than the other. Different strokes for different folks! Some do require much more extensive knowledge than other which may be largely applicable in other categories or not.

OW: Dive Tech
Advanced OW: BS ( should be required for OW, unless your're trying to sell classes of course )
Cave: Tech Cave
Wreck: Tech Wreck
And so on.

Of course can you imagine PADI trying to sell people into diving by pitching all the wonderful, and sometimes complex, technical knowledge you need to dive.

Then there are always the industry insiders who need to re-invent the same words over and over and over again for no other reason than to put a chip on their shoulder.

 

[O-ring]

Different strokes for different folks!

Hhhhuhhh hhhuhhh, dude, you said stroke...

 

[Scuba]

Hhhhuhhh hhhuhhh

O - Ring,

Surface - quick - emergency buddy assist ascent.

You're leaking Gas.

--------------

STROKE

 

[The Chairman]

EANx used to be condsidered "technical" no more than five years ago. Now, there are some who offer it with their basic OW class. So the term is not only grey, but it slides a lot too.

No one should dive in an environment they have not been trained for UNLESS... they are in the process of being trained for it. And I mean, only as part of that class too! This has grey areas too... if I have made safe dives to 80' should I try going all the way down to 90'??? Sounds reasonable... but to just jump into a situation with no training as to what to expect is an exercise in Murphy's law. And hopefully you have ol' Darwin on retainer, 'cause you just might meet him.

Very few on this board like the image of a cowboy diver (sorry TM). It is so obvious when someone else plays fast and loose with common sense. Unfortunately, we all think we are the exceptions to the rule, and we tend to stretch the rules for our convenience. We might never admit it, but we just know we can beat the odds. As a good friend and preacher used to say... "Brethren, this ought not to be!" Tech divers and instructors really need to be excellent role models here, because every newbie is looking at you, and wants to be JUST LIKE YOU! You are their "diving god", for in their eyes you have reached nirvana and are beyond reproach.

So for their safety, don't dive in areas you are not qualified to dive in. Show some humility and true greatness and demonstrate to others that you truly believe what you say...
Don't dive without the proper training!

BTW, I am not trying to imply that anyone in this thread dives beyond their limits. I am just reminding all of us how our actions and attitudes will affect others.

 

[100days-a-year]

I always thought a "Technical" dive was one where the the gear cost more than the trip and couln't be carried by one person.

 

[TCDiver1]

Tomato, tomahto, potato, potahto ..... seems to me you guys are mincing words here. Not to put words in any mouths here but, you both agree proper training for a specific type of dive is essential. It's no less important for technical diving than it is for recreational diving. The generally accepted limits for recreational diving seem fine to me as you have to draw a line somewhere:
- 130 feet max
- 130 feet max depth & penetration distance in overhead enviro.
- air or EAN40 max
We all know few newly certified OW divers are ready or should dive to 130 feet which is why we encourage more training. Few divers certified in warm water, good vis., environs are properly trained to dive the cold water, low vis., world we dive in michigan. Put three times the weight & a full seven mil wet suit on this diver for the first time and watch for the bug eyes when they hit the cold water! The c-card is the same, a point that's been debated to death with Padi.

The point is i think it's really hard to draw a line even within what has always been considered recreational diving. The main thing is getting proper training for the diving being done

ps: Netdoc, remember when nitrox was voodoo gas? LMAO!

 

[JamesK]

originally posted by NetDoc
Tech divers and instructors really need to be excellent role models here, because every newbie is looking at you, and wants to be JUST LIKE YOU! You are their "diving god", for in their eyes you have reached nirvana and are beyond reproach.

Awww Shucks! ut: LOL...

Anyway, Rick pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned. While all diving has some technical background to it, it is so commonplace now, that it is simply done for recreation. My cave diving is done for recreation. I do it because I enjoy it. Not because I want to have tunnels and restrictions in new cave named after me, although that would be cool!

Oh, and as for the ego thing, I really don't think so. One of the first things you are taught, or atleast I was, is you have to check your ego at the door.