Recreational Regulator conversion to Sidemount Setup

[adamchooi]

SM gurus,

I currently have an Atomic B2 reg with second stage swivel, 30" HP hose with SPG and a SS1 Second safe LPI hose setup.

Im planning to get an Apeks DST + XTX50 reg and use both as SM regs.

Using it on Dive Rite Nomad LTZ


My questions are :

1. position of the regs (Which one goes left/right) ? Im thinking Apeks on the left since its second stage can be adjusted to left orientation.

2. long hose and 90 degree adapter to be used on which reg? On Apeks so I may till maintain the swivel function for the atomic. Is it ok to have the long hose on the left?

3. Is it a good idea to install my Second safe onto Nomad LTZ so I may dive single tank with my Atomic Reg without octo in OW environment ?




Kindly do advice.

 

[tbone1004]

why would you get an apeks on one side and atomic on the other? Get another Atomic B2 so they match. You're not only mixing brands, but also mixing technologies in the first stage, makes it much more of a pain to get serviced. If you like your B2, get another, if you don't like it, get a full matching set.

1. doesn't matter, depends on your hose routing decisions but the most common hose routing doesn't require reversed second stages.

2. right side is best in my experience, I prefer ball swivels to angle adapters

3. no, too bulky and you already have two second stages. Leave it on your single tank rig. There are much better ways to dive single tank rigs than with Air2's.

 

[kwinter]

What tbone said. +1


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[adamchooi]

why would you get an apeks on one side and atomic on the other? Get another Atomic B2 so they match. You're not only mixing brands, but also mixing technologies in the first stage, makes it much more of a pain to get serviced. If you like your B2, get another, if you don't like it, get a full matching set.

1. doesn't matter, depends on your hose routing decisions but the most common hose routing doesn't require reversed second stages.

2. right side is best in my experience, I prefer ball swivels to angle adapters

3. no, too bulky and you already have two second stages. Leave it on your single tank rig. There are much better ways to dive single tank rigs than with Air2's.

Hey tbone1004,

Thanks for the input.

I was thinking to mix things up a little so i may have the options of apeks/atomic when i dive singles. But another atomic reg probably make more sense i guess. Was bought into the idea where apeks xtx series are well suited for SM/cave than atomic's.

Will the atomic b2 be a fairly reliable SM/cave regs?

 

[karstdvr]

why would you get an apeks on one side and atomic on the other? Get another Atomic B2 so they match. You're not only mixing brands, but also mixing technologies in the first stage, makes it much more of a pain to get serviced. If you like your B2, get another, if you don't like it, get a full matching set.

.

Why not mix and match?

If you are looking for aesthetically appealing then have same regs,but if you want functionality then mix and match. Some regs depending where the HP and LP pressure port are located can provide you with better left side and right side routing. To me it is about streamlining and optimal hose placement so I would use different regs on each side to take advantage of the uniqueness of that regulator shape. Right now I use two different 1st stages,same make different model,plus I use different manufacturer for the second stage, I don't really care that my 1st stages don't match as long as they provide the IP I want.

Not sure what you mean by ,"You're not only mixing brands, but also mixing technologies in the first stage, makes it much more of a pain to get serviced". Where I don't have lots of different brands of regulators, I have a few,but this doesn't cause me any increased cost or difficulty in getting serviced.

---------- Post added June 11th, 2015 at 05:26 AM ----------

2. long hose and 90 degree adapter to be used on which reg?.

You would want this on the left, and the angled 90 degree adaptor is a good. Swivels on second stages will introduce a failure point.

 

[tbone1004]

so Kelly and I have a few differences of opinion on the matter.

Regarding mixing technologies, you now have a piston on one side and a diaphragm on the other. Doesn't really matter for the actual diving, but finding a shop that services both Atomic and Apeks might be different.

The reason the Apeks is preferred is because it is a sealed diaphragm, and to my knowledge is the only company that is actually making one themselves. All of the others are clones/modified copies and are made by ODS. Can't think of anyone other than Atomic and Apeks that actually make their own anymore, Scubapro might still be making the MK25's in Italy, but not sure if they moved that over to TUSA.

The Atomic B2 has the same hose routing as the DST, so that's out, the only disadvantage it has is that it is a piston, and that means you either have to pay an extra $25 minimum/service to have it packed with grease to seal it, or you have to be super careful when sidemount diving that you don't get sand/silt/clay inside of it. In backmount your valves never touch the ground, in sidemount they can touch when you are first putting the tanks in the water, they can touch if you're in a sidemount passage, etc etc. For non-sidemount only cave diving, there is no practical difference, and certainly no difference in singles.

I do dive mismatched regulators, but both the firsts and seconds match each other.

The other difference is in where the long hose goes, and I have found that the right side is the best to run a modified hog type regulator setup with the short hose on your left and long on the right. Long hose crosses your chest and into your mouth. You can see good pictures of this on Steve Martin's website and it is the same as far as regulators go that Edd Sorenson teaches. I don't dive like this, but most of my buddies do. I use Poseidons so have made a different choice for my hose setups.

 

[bamafan]

Tbone I think you are over exaggerating the need to have a sealed first stage. I dive Mk25, 20's and a few 10's and I have never had a problem with them from getting mud / sand etc. in them. I have left them for over a month in caves before and they worked fine. I also don't see any unnormal wear on them as I normally get better than two years on a service. I have seen a diaphragm reg that split the housing but I have yet to see a piston reg fail in warm water. Each to their own. My cave instructor was a ScubaPro guy and that is what I have stuck with. I buy them used off Ebay and normally have less than $200 in a first and second stage even after servicing them.

Maybe you are doing more advanced dives than I am and I might start having a problem if I was really diving sidemount.

 

[adamchooi]

Judging from tbone's latest explanation, the Apeks is more well suited for SM/Cave diving in comparison to the Atomic B2 (unless I go get it sealed).

Based on the First stage seal issue, its probably better that I use my Atomic B2 on the left to prevent the First stage from touching the floor while I placed the sealed Apeks on my right. Of course I could eliminate this issue if I get my own tank valves but i will most probably be diving on rental tanks and diveshops here might not wanna let me use my own.

I might run into problems if I use both atomic b2s since there are not first stage sealed out of the box. I have issues locating an authorized Atomic service center near my area while an Aqualung/Apeks technician is just 30 mins drive away. I will need more info on what I can/cannot do with my atomic. Whereas for the apeks, I have less worries when it comes to part and servicing.

Decisions ~! Decisions ~!

 

[karstdvr]

so Kelly and I have a few differences of opinion on the matter.

Regarding mixing technologies, you now have a piston on one side and a diaphragm on the other. Doesn't really matter for the actual diving, but finding a shop that services both Atomic and Apeks might be different.

The reason the Apeks is preferred is because it is a sealed diaphragm, and to my knowledge is the only company that is actually making one themselves. All of the others are clones/modified copies and are made by ODS. Can't think of anyone other than Atomic and Apeks that actually make their own anymore, Scubapro might still be making the MK25's in Italy, but not sure if they moved that over to TUSA.

The Atomic B2 has the same hose routing as the DST, so that's out, the only disadvantage it has is that it is a piston, and that means you either have to pay an extra $25 minimum/service to have it packed with grease to seal it, or you have to be super careful when sidemount diving that you don't get sand/silt/clay inside of it. In backmount your valves never touch the ground, in sidemount they can touch when you are first putting the tanks in the water, they can touch if you're in a sidemount passage, etc etc. For non-sidemount only cave diving, there is no practical difference, and certainly no difference in singles.

I do dive mismatched regulators, but both the firsts and seconds match each other.

The other difference is in where the long hose goes, and I have found that the right side is the best to run a modified hog type regulator setup with the short hose on your left and long on the right. Long hose crosses your chest and into your mouth. You can see good pictures of this on Steve Martin's website and it is the same as far as regulators go that Edd Sorenson teaches. I don't dive like this, but most of my buddies do. I use Poseidons so have made a different choice for my hose setups.

Somethings you may want to consider is that the OP isn't talking about cave diving and concern with silt,clay etc. Matter of fact, this is used as a recreational sidemount forum and he asked a good question about regulators. Less than 1% of 1% of the people who visit this forum probably ever have to worry about environmentally regulators versus non-sealed, because they dive the configuration only.

Let's think outside the box. We tend to be closed minded and think like backmounters. I have MK20/G250s for left and right post, but there was a time that backmounters would use two different 1st stages for backmount to get a better configuration,but this has applied to sidemounting as well. That is why I say that the only real issue with the 1st stage is having an adequate IP,but mixing 1st stages to have good hose routing is not a bad idea,because different 1st stage bodies can make a difference based on their shape. Now if we want to get hardcore sidemounting with gear removal etc,then yes environmentally sealed is good,and I do,but I have two different 1st stages-works great!!!

I spend $1000s dollars per year for gas, DPV, hydros,drysuits etc etc. What is $25 to get a benefit?

 

[tbone1004]

I never said need to have, only that the only disadvantage that the pistons had is that they are not inherently sealed and that they cost on average $25/stage to have serviced on top of the regular service price.

I don't do those types of dives, it's not my thing, but he simply asked why the Apeks DST seemed to be preferred, and I pointed out that the only real advantage it has is that it is a sealed diaphragm, which is advantageous over a piston in the long term either due to saving the extra $50/service or by risking stuff getting inside of them if they are left unsealed, that's all. Don't start the passive aggressive stabs like you did in the last sentence. I never said that I was doing them, never said it wasn't appropriate *note that I recommended another B2* all I did was point out something to be aware of and answering the question that was asked.

Edit: Kelly, was just pointing out my opinion. I know he's not talking about cave diving, but what he has read where the DST is the "preferred" sidemount first stage, is usually based on cave divers....

OP, something else to consider which is a bit of a bear to swallow, but if you are going to be regularly going back and forth between single tank backmount, and twin tank sidemount, it is likely going to be easier to just bite the bullet and get a full sidemount reg set. If you go back and forth to backmount, you have hoses that have to be changed every time you swap back and forth, so it may just be easier to bite the extra couple hundred and get a full sidemount kit. You can get a Hog D3 full set for $630, and that includes all hoses, SPG's, and two first/second stages. Considering it is going to be at least $100 for one new SPG and the two hoses, $600 for a DST/XTX50+$40 for the 5 port upgrade, and then probably $40-$60 in new hoses to get the lengths right, you're in for close to $800, may be easier to go with another brand and save some money, or spend the extra couple hundred and go with the Apeks set.

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