Recreational rebreathers - what is holding them back?

[bruehlt]

What is the biggest thing keeping the rebreathers out of the rec market? Do you think its cost, ease of use, both, or something else?

My opinion is cost.

 

[lamont]

just the addition of two valves (doubles) to my gas supply trying to kill me has been enlightening enough. i really think that people going with reabreathers need to have a good reason and they need to be very experienced. diving doubles and stages would seem to me to be a good prequisite to rebreathers since it builds up the task loading slowly with simple mechanical devices first, before adding chemical reactions to the mix...

 

[wedivebc]

What is the biggest thing keeping the rebreathers out of the rec market? Do you think its cost, ease of use, both, or something else?

My opinion is cost.

I think low cost units like the dolphin made that statement largely untrue a few years ago. The sport KISS will probably be the new dolphin as far as cost and capability is concerned. Some people just don't want to be bothered. Lamont makes some good points but I think the KISS system has partially solved the complexity issue

 

[lamont]

I think low cost units like the dolphin made that statement largely untrue a few years ago. The sport KISS will probably be the new dolphin as far as cost and capability is concerned. Some people just don't want to be bothered. Lamont makes some good points but I think the KISS system has partially solved the complexity issue

i'll have to admit i've got my eye on the KISS units, but i'm in "watch and learn" mode until i get at least 1,000+ dives under my belt... YMMV.

 

[RonFrank]

What is the biggest thing keeping the rebreathers out of the rec market? Do you think its cost, ease of use, both, or something else?

My opinion is cost.

As a NON-Rebreather users, I voted for cost.

However the reality is most divers don't need them, and if fact could not really use them for the diving that they do.

So, I go get rebreather certified, spend 30K on a rebreather, and then travel with all this stuff to COZ dreaming my BT will be limited only to my NDL requirements which are WAY beyond what anyone can do without a rebreather. Unfortunately I run into a problem. No one else on ANY boat is diving these things, and no boat captain is willing to wait while I do my two hour dive because they have trip schedules. Ohh, and I MUST be with a DM cause it's required there.

Hey, I'd love to spend three hours at a time on the reefs. But unless I have a buddy who is also certified and using one of these things, and a boat who is going to sit there waiting until I finally have had my fill (like maybe my own), it's a mute point.

 

[Crazyduck]

Unfortunately it’s like many other things.
In the early 90’s Nitrox was called the “Devil Gas” and certain agency’s ran from the stage screaming to its members to 'stay away.' Now here we are… Nitrox is the number one course taught by most agencies after basics training classes. Hummm…

There are excellent machines on the market and hopefully, with certain developments we can start to see the development of the recreational market and then maybe see some critical mass to help with sales. These units are growing very fast in certain non-recreational segments of the market.

I don’t think that they are made for everyone. But if you are diving to say 80ft or deeper and plan on doing technical dives why no take advantage of a Nitrox mixing machine.

I have my planned out. Dropping the price set up would help but that is going to take time.

My first pool dive was 2-1/2 hours long and I flew the machine on manual for most of that. I got out of the water feeling awesome. Stay that about scuba- how much gas would you need for a 2-1/2 hour dive? We used two S19 tanks and both were about half empty when we got out. This is the future.

In closing we need to show people this as another option. First we provided a learning tree that was for leadership, then we added technical diving, now we offer people closed circuit. We run them through Nitrox and Divemaster and offer them the option to dive Closed Circuit.

Silent diving all-

 

[bruehlt]

Interesting replies....

I have 80 logged dives and have been diving for 5 years. This past Saturday I had the opportunity to try out the Sport KISS and Megladon rebreathers. It was a basic try out dive, 10 min on each unit. Plus other info. I have read the book Mastering Rebreathers as well. And well, I must say that I see plenty of need for recreational rebreathers in the general scuba market.

I agree, that joe bag of donuts who dives maybe 1 time a year - its really not that big of a deal - he probably rents gear any how.

But for the rest of us, the folks who dive frequently throughout the year, but are not avid tech divers (no insult to most of you, but most divers aren't technical in nature) - would benefit tremendously from a recreational rebreather. It gets even BETTER when you get into tech diving (ie eliminating stage bottles, doubles, etc).

Consider the cost of a nice setup, $1000 easy, maybe not including computer.

What if the price of a RB came down close to that of a regular SCUBA setup? I believe that will be the day when RB's will finally break head first into the market.

 

[bruehlt]

Unfortunately it’s like many other things.
In the early 90’s Nitrox was called the “Devil Gas” and certain agency’s ran from the stage screaming to its members to 'stay away.' Now here we are… Nitrox is the number one course taught by most agencies after basics training classes. Hummm…

I agree - and wonder if the folks who preach this philosophy want to prepetuate an elitest attitude for this sport? Hmm...

 

[Crazyduck]

Realistic pricing-
Semi closed 2to 3k
Full closed 4 to 7 k
Speciality makes run 10 and up.

Most training is $1200.00

Training time- 1 week (vacation.)

As far as diving- more and more locations are catering to rb divers.
Yes, it might be a technical boat- but wasn’t that true with nitrox a few years ago?

They keep the tanks, the sorb, and mix your gas just like nitrox. You show up prep your gear and away you go.

The real benefit is technical diving and what you have to bring along- Imagine using 20Cu ft of gas to make a 250ft dive. This is what you are looking at.

If you enjoy hoping around the reef it’s even easier. You have time in, and time out- no big deal. You can carry transponders (for location,) and image a rebreather that weighs less than aluminum 80. No noise- listening to the fish and shrimp and enjoying the dive. I am hoping that we might see a unit soon for 3 to 5k new and 3k used. The future is very bright. I hope this does not sound negative- but I am very excited about what this holds and the future is very bright!

Andrew

As a NON-Rebreather users, I voted for cost.

However the reality is most divers don't need them, and if fact could not really use them for the diving that they do.

So, I go get rebreather certified, spend 30K on a rebreather, and then travel with all this stuff to COZ dreaming my BT will be limited only to my NDL requirements which are WAY beyond what anyone can do without a rebreather. Unfortunately I run into a problem. No one else on ANY boat is diving these things, and no boat captain is willing to wait while I do my two hour dive because they have trip schedules. Ohh, and I MUST be with a DM cause it's required there.

Hey, I'd love to spend three hours at a time on the reefs. But unless I have a buddy who is also certified and using one of these things, and a boat who is going to sit there waiting until I finally have had my fill (like maybe my own), it's a mute point.

 

[bruehlt]

Realistic pricing-
Semi closed 2to 3k
Full closed 4 to 7 k
Speciality makes run 10 and up.

Most training is $1200.00

Training time- 1 week (vacation.)

As far as diving- more and more locations are catering to rb divers.
Yes, it might be a technical boat- but wasn’t that true with nitrox a few years ago?

They keep the tanks, the sorb, and mix your gas just like nitrox. You show up prep your gear and away you go.

The real benefit is technical diving and what you have to bring along- Imagine using 20Cu ft of gas to make a 250ft dive. This is what you are looking at.

If you enjoy hoping around the reef it’s even easier. You have time in, and time out- no big deal. You can carry transponders (for location,) and image a rebreather that weighs less than aluminum 80. No noise- listening to the fish and shrimp and enjoying the dive. I am hoping that we might see a unit soon for 3 to 5k new and 3k used. The future is very bright. I hope this does not sound negative- but I am very excited about what this holds and the future is very bright!

Andrew

You've hit the nail on the head - Wonder how much mark up is involved in a lot of those prices listed above? The dive industry is very secretive when it comes to this sort of thing (ala good ole boys club).

You see a lot of home brew rebreathers out there, its interesting. Looking at the development cost of one makes me wonder if prices are high due to tooling costs - I mean my god, they are extremely simple! (that is, if you utilize the KISS principle - no autopilot). Or - the high mark up to recover investment costs as well, who knows.