• Welcome to ScubaBoard


  1. Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

    Benefits of registering include

    • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
    • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
    • You can make this box go away

    Joining is quick and easy. Login or Register now by clicking on the button

Recreational Rebreather!?!?!?!?

Discussion in 'General Scuba Equipment Discussions' started by adamp69, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. flots am

    flots am Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Wherever you go in life, that's where you are.
    3,226
    1,864
    113
    There shouldn't be any "hopefully" involved with a rebreather.

    If you're not certain exactly what it's doing, you're just taking a spin at the wheel of death.

    flots.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2013
  2. Douglas Ward

    Douglas Ward Rebreather Pilot

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Woodbridge, Virginia, United States
    66
    21
    8
    Floats am. Agreed that's why its being returned to Hollis for a refund.

    Explorer is not nearly reliable enough to be sold to the public.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
     
  3. MatthewAddison

    MatthewAddison Angel Fish

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Los Angeles, New York
    11
    14
    0
    If I were a betting man, given the above data, I would have to suggest that on that one dive at least, you did not reset the scrubber click counter from a previous dive. I have seen this happen with some frequency as the "New Filter Fitted?" confirmation button is reversed (left button) from all the other confirmation screens shown to the user during pre-dive. The reversal of confirmation buttons is a safety feature so you don't accidentally reset the counter, but it has caught up divers before.
    I only suggest this because I have never seen an Explorer dive profile, even diving Boston Harbor, that gave me a total scrubber time of 45 minutes.
    I have had dives in cold water (45-50 degrees) where the total scrubber time did not exceed 75 minutes. The Explorer is definitely sensitive to temperature, but having never dived an RB with a metabolic click counter before, I cannot say if the duration in cold water is shockingly bad compared to other RB's with a similar design or (more likely) I have just been blissfully unaware of just how drastically my own metabolic processes are affected by cold. I have a feeling it is more of the latter.
    On a side note, I did most of the early prototype diving on these units in 80+ degree water and it was not uncommon to get 2 1/2 hour dives before the click counter forced me to the surface.
     
  4. flots am

    flots am Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Wherever you go in life, that's where you are.
    3,226
    1,864
    113
    Seriously? There's a reset button? It relies on the diver to know if the scrubber is good for another dive?

    Wow.

    I would expect some sort of instrumentation that would allow it to know the scrubber condition.
     
  5. MatthewAddison

    MatthewAddison Angel Fish

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Los Angeles, New York
    11
    14
    0
    During predive, the diver tells the software if fresh scrubber material has been installed. The system then resets the click counter.
    There is also a temp stick and an optional co2 sensor.



    Sent from the heliosphere using Tapatalk
     
  6. flots am

    flots am Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Wherever you go in life, that's where you are.
    3,226
    1,864
    113
    Considering the number of divers that change computers out between dives because "the computer is bent", what percentage are going to think "Hey, I Can get an extra dive out of this scrubber if I just press this button!"?

    flots
     
  7. Garth

    Garth Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: North Carolina USA
    1,047
    138
    63
    wait. what color is the button?

    ;-)
     
  8. MatthewAddison

    MatthewAddison Angel Fish

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Los Angeles, New York
    11
    14
    0
    The only sure-fire way to avoid the type of behavior you are describing would be to require the user call in to the factory for an unlock code every two hours of use and put his professional minder on the phone to confirm the scrubber was changed. You can't engineer out stupid and still make the product viable for the 99.8% of responsible divers who put the value of their lives at more than $12 worth of soda lime.

    One thing the Explorer will do for your Darwin diver is alert them to end the dive if the thermistor array starts seeing the stack cooling. Also, if our suicidal diver has a CO2 sensor installed, that will warn the diver when it sees 5mb CO2 breakthrough, and call for an OC abort when it hits 10mb.

    At some point we have to rely on the Instructor base and community of peers to cull out the type of self-destructive behavior you are describing.
     
  9. flots am

    flots am Solo Diver

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Wherever you go in life, that's where you are.
    3,226
    1,864
    113
    Actually, you can engineer out stupid. It's done all the time.

    A non-user-refillable cartridge that knows when it's been used would take care of the problem.

    It's marketed as a "recreational" rebreather. Recreational Divers are the same people that don't even want to get their regs serviced every couple of years and think a VIP is a scam. Do you really expect them to give a rebreather the attention it requires?

    I think the entire concept of the device is silly.

    flots.
     
  10. MatthewAddison

    MatthewAddison Angel Fish

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Los Angeles, New York
    11
    14
    0
    You mean like a printer ink cartridge? If we ignore the entire industry that has cropped up to surmount the design hurdles built into the non-refillable ink cartridge then I could see your point. And, like the ink cartridge, they would cost stupid amounts of money for what they are, which would drive a greater proportion of people to try and find ways to overcome the engineered "safety features" in untested ways leading to greater safety concerns and the potential for more injuries.


    That type of behavioral pattern in a person was NOT learned through diving. It is a pattern of behavior which extends into every facet of their lives. Their car, their home, their health are all in a state of neglect to a greater or lesser degree. It has nothing to do with their cert card.

    The greater preponderance of divers have absolutely zero interest in deep decompression diving but would love a closer interaction with the wildlife they have spent thousands of dollars and many hours of effort to be able to see. That is the market a "recreational rebreather" is trying to satisfy, and the concept you find silly.

    What I find silly is a diver who is forced to wear a full technical RB to do what they love to do, which is dive to 100ft to photograph pretty fish.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013

Share This Page