Reason for Rec Triox?

[ppo2_diver]

Don't forget about carbon dioxide buildup. Helium lowers this. If you were setting a mooring or doing something that required a lot of physical effort, helium will be beneficial in lowering carbon dioxide and make breating easier.

Some people feel impaired even within the 100' range. So helium can be beneficial. It's better to eliminate narcosis than to manage it. Just my humble opinion.

 

[TSandM]

Rob, the answer to your question lies in the fact that GUE questions the conventional teaching about helium's disadvantages during decompression. I quote from Jablonski's Getting Clear on the Basics:

In light of both the WKPP's and GUE's work with helium, it now seems evident that helium has been treated too conservatively, and that it is either eliminated more rapidly and/or is tolerated in higher pressure than what was originally believed. Jablonski and Irvine have not only demonstrated the clear benefits of increased helium use on very long immersions, they have also shown that these benefits extend beyond bottom mixes into helium-enriched decompression mixtures. Together with the WKPP, GUE divers are commonly using helium mixes with greater comfort and efficiency from short recreational diving to long immersion exploration dives.

He appears to be basing this on differences in the treatment of helium in VPM-type decompression algorithms. I'm sure I'll learn more about it in class.

I do want to correct one misconception -- Rec Triox is NOT required anywhere in the GUE curriculum. You can go straight to Tech 1. I just chose not to. You can also use Rec Triox as a way of taking Tech 1 in two bites, which is part of why I'm taking it.

I have horrible problems with narcosis at the hundred foot level in our cold, murky water, and there are some very good dives in that depth range I'd like to do with a clear head (eg. the wrecks we dove in Nanaimo). Also, only a part of Rec Triox is about the gas. The majority of the class is dealing with problem solving underwater -- emergency procedures and the team skills to carry them out, which become more and more important as you get further from the surface.

 

[Adobo]

I'm going to parrot some things I heard in a class recently.. I'll do my best to paraphrase as I do not remember exactly how things were put.

- C02 is more narcotic than nitrogen
- breathing efficiency with 32% is roughly half at 100ft as compared to breathing air on surface.
- a helium based mix is breathed at 86% efficiency compared to breathing air on the surface. (I don't remember what the mix was - maybe 30/30)

My personal interpretation of the above is that at 100ft, if you are working hard it becomes difficult to "catch your breath". Narcosis from C02 may be more of a problem at that depth in those situations than narcosis from nitrogen.

Again, parroting on my part. So go easy.

And as TS&M says, choosing the "correct" gas is only a portion of what GUE teaches. In addition to what she already pointed out, they also go into details on how to properly plan dives into those ranges. In the class that is a pre-requisite to RecTriox, students are taught how to calculate minimum gas. They are also taught the notion of how to apply "halves" diving. They don't go into how your gas consumption will affect the length of your dive. So presumably, walking out RecTriox, the student will know how to estimate his/her run time for the dive and how much gas will be consumed. The other things considered in this type of planning are MDL and also in the case of diving doubles, conserving sufficient gas to do second properly pre-planned dive.

 

[Karen Cleveland]

It looks like Rec Triox is required for all GUE divers wanting to get training beyond that. That's what I'm not really understanding. I, for one, don't feel the need for helium at 100'. 120' is about where I think I start to need it, but that's the Rec Triox max depth limit.

Rec Triox is not required before taking Tech 1 or Cave 1. It is an intermediate step, but not required. DIR F is required before taking any higher level training with GUE.

And as far a benenfits of diving helium to shallow depths, I feel it gives me a clearer head....especially during lobster season, and I don't feel as tired after the dives with helium than on the dives with air post dive.

Karen

 

[*Floater*]

Is it worth the added disadvantages of helium to dive it at such shallow depths?

IMO no, because of the cost (but if I was rich then the cost wouldn't be an issue and I'd use it). I may still take Rec Troix at some point. Here's why:

1. I already have ANDI's Tech SafeAir Diver cert which is good down to 50m (164') and 2 deco gases up to O2 for deco, but no trimix, so rec triox will fill in that gap. (i.e. I could do the same dives with 21/35 instead of air even at resorts which don't sell trimix without a cert).

2. Rec Triox is the first half of GUE tech 1, which is a course I might want to take later on. Taking Rec Triox first would allow me to span it out a bit.

3. The skill training is supposed to be very good so the course might help me to become a better diver.

That's just for me, obviously it may make less sense for others.

 

[divemaster_jim]

IMO no, because of the cost (but if I was rich then the cost wouldn't be an issue and I'd use it). I may still take Rec Troix at some point. Here's why:

1. I already have ANDI's Tech SafeAir Diver cert which is good down to 50m (164') and 2 deco gases up to O2 for deco, but no trimix, so rec triox will fill in that gap. (i.e. I could do the same dives with 21/35 instead of air even at resorts which don't sell trimix without a cert).

2. Rec Triox is the first half of GUE tech 1, which is a course I might want to take later on. Taking Rec Triox first would allow me to span it out a bit.

3. The skill training is supposed to be very good so the course might help me to become a better diver.

That's just for me, obviously it may make less sense for others.

Then I could benefit from it as well?, I've got the Advance Nitrox cert. from TDI.

 

[KMD]

Depending on what you are doing, there are cases where having a clearer head in the 80' to 120' range can be benificial.

One of my personal examples would be when scootering. While on the trigger everything is happening 3 times faster. Mistakes in navigation can have a much greater impact on your dive plan. (for instance just a ten minute ride in the wrong direction followed by a scooter failure can mean you have up to 30 minute kick back to your mistep.)

Everybody has to make a decision on if the cost of helium fills is worth it for the dive you plan on doing.

 

[MHK]

I've been following TSandM's thread Two HOURS??????? and it got me wondering about the purpose of this course. I did some research, visited GUE's website, downloaded the standards, etc. According to GUE, the depth limitation for Rec Triox is 120 feet. My question is why bother with helium at such a shallow depth?

I think this question is best answered in a 2 step approach, since what I'm reading in this thread is a relatively common misconception regarding the Rec Triox class. The question(s) as I see them are:

1) What is the purpose of the Rec Triox class; and

2) Is helium necessary in the recreational range?

All too often I see divers misidentifying the true risk(s) of diving in the otherwise recreational range of ~120' and viewing the purpose of the Rec Triox class as a gateway to helium and nothing much more then that.

The true intent of the class is to, in essence, offer what many of us in the dive industry believe is sorely lacking which is a true "advanced diving" class. Diving in the 120' range carries with it the added responsibility of being extremely proficient in managing and minimizing risks, ie; gas management protocols, team protocols, proper gas choice decisions, ascent rate strategies, deep stops, proficient air share skills just to name a few. Our intent with the class is to place an emphasis on ALL of the skills necessary to dive in the 120' range, the addition of 30% He into the mix is but a small component of the class. Many divers have little desire to go the "technical" dive route, and have less desire to go into mandatory decompression stops, carry deco bottles etc.. But nonetheless these same divers have a desire to learn how to more safely explore diving in the ~120' range. We believe the Rec Triox class fills a void that is missing in the dive industry.

The 2nd part of the question revolves around the necessity, or lack thereof, of adding He to the mix while diving in otherwise recreational ranges.. When you consider the wide variety of dive options available in the 120' range you start to see why we believe that the addition of helium can be a valuable tool. Is doing a dive on a reef in Cayman the same as doing a wreck penetration dive in the NorthEast? Is doing a 120' dive in Hawaii the same as doing a high flow cave penetration dive at the same depth? Having an additional tool in the divers tool box allows the diver to make proper choices. Does a photographer, or a mapper, or a salvager enjoy greater narcotic benefits when adding a touch of He to the mix? Is C02 retention more or less of a concern in strong currents, or with perhaps poorly preforming regulators, or with divers that have poor trim and added drag issues? Is 4 decks inside a wreck the same as cruising over a reef in Cayman? With regard to your issue respecting more complicated decompression obligations and/or management issues while using a 30/30 mix, I think you'll find that any such minor inconvieneces are outweighed when compared to the increased narcotic benefits and the reduced potential for C02 retention.

Hope that helps, but let me know if you have additional questions.

Regards,

 

[jtivat]

I think this question is best answered in a 2 step approach, since what I'm reading in this thread is a relatively common misconception regarding the Rec Triox class. The question(s) as I see them are:

1) What is the purpose of the Rec Triox class; and

2) Is helium necessary in the recreational range?

All too often I see divers misidentifying the true risk(s) of diving in the otherwise recreational range of ~120' and viewing the purpose of the Rec Triox class as a gateway to helium and nothing much more then that.

The true intent of the class is to, in essence, offer what many of us in the dive industry believe is sorely lacking which is a true "advanced diving" class. Diving in the 120' range carries with it the added responsibility of being extremely proficient in managing and minimizing risks, ie; gas management protocols, team protocols, proper gas choice decisions, ascent rate strategies, deep stops, proficient air share skills just to name a few. Our intent with the class is to place an emphasis on ALL of the skills necessary to dive in the 120' range, the addition of 30% He into the mix is but a small component of the class. Many divers have little desire to go the "technical" dive route, and have less desire to go into mandatory decompression stops, carry deco bottles etc.. But nonetheless these same divers have a desire to learn how to more safely explore diving in the ~120' range. We believe the Rec Triox class fills a void that is missing in the dive industry.

The 2nd part of the question revolves around the necessity, or lack thereof, of adding He to the mix while diving in otherwise recreational ranges.. When you consider the wide variety of dive options available in the 120' range you start to see why we believe that the addition of helium can be a valuable tool. Is doing a dive on a reef in Cayman the same as doing a wreck penetration dive in the NorthEast? Is doing a 120' dive in Hawaii the same as doing a high flow cave penetration dive at the same depth? Having an additional tool in the divers tool box allows the diver to make proper choices. Does a photographer, or a mapper, or a salvager enjoy greater narcotic benefits when adding a touch of He to the mix? Is C02 retention more or less of a concern in strong currents, or with perhaps poorly preforming regulators, or with divers that have poor trim and added drag issues? Is 4 decks inside a wreck the same as cruising over a reef in Cayman? With regard to your issue respecting more complicated decompression obligations and/or management issues while using a 30/30 mix, I think you'll find that any such minor inconvieneces are outweighed when compared to the increased narcotic benefits and the reduced potential for C02 retention.

Hope that helps, but let me know if you have additional questions.

Regards,

That is a great response but I have one question, are you saying that some people in this class are going to go cave diving or penetrate a wreck? Because if you are going inside a wreck or cave you need deco training (as well as other training) even if you don't plan on doing deco.

 

[TSandM]

Why do you need deco training to do shallow caves or wrecks? I've done a wreck penetration workshop (although I haven't practiced enough to feel competent to do wreck penetration yet), and I intend to do Cave 1 next spring, and I will not have done any deco training before then, and nobody has said I need to.