Reaching valves

[david.tolan]

Rob Meddes once bubbled...
To get into the water without turning on my air i have to:-

...Do all the checks,
have the dive delayed,
take all the kit off,
turn off the air (Dumb)
put the kit back on,
Take a breath from the reg just before jumping in the water,
Don't jump cause there's no air from the reg.
Get my buddy to turn on the Air,
Go through ALL checks from the top.

That happened towards the end of a weeks diving, 3-4 dives a day. Complacency.... It'll get ya if ya let it.

Dave.

 

[MikeFerrara]

How can a experienced diver screw up and turn your air off? Here is a little story of a time when it hapened to me. I was wearing doubles preparing for a Lake Superior wreck dive but the same thing could happen with a single tank.

I switched tanks on the way to the wreck. Emerging from the protection of Whitefish bay we found high seas (4-6 foot with one here and there a little bigger). The decision was made to go ahead with the dive because many of our great lakes dives have been under these conditions.

A rocking boat adds a level of complexity to even simple things. I was the first in the water. Once in the water I was being given a sound beating by the sea. I reached for my inflator to dump some air (I prefer to drop below the surface to wait for my buddy) and found it wasn't there. I had forgotten to place the hose through the bungie. The rough entry cause the hose to end up stuck between my tanks and the wing. I was able to reach it but was afraid to pull hard enough to extract it. It would not have been a good time to pull the hose off. I swam back to the ladder to have someone give me a hand. On the ladder, now being beaten by the boat and the sea, I had both hands busy holding on and my reg in my mouth. I tried to explain the problem and the person on the boat concluded that I had forgotten to turn on my air. It is hard to communicate while everyone is preoccupied as they were. My pal promptly turned off my left post. I didn't know what he had done but I did know he hadn't given me my inflator. I made another attempt to explain the problem and this time he got it right. I shoved out from the boat and sliped below the waves to wait for my wife. Now I get wondering what he had done behind me on his first attempt to help. I reached back to check my valves to find he had shut off my left post.

This person would never have made the mistake if it were not for the confussion caused by the rough water. Also my wife and I would have found and corrected the turned off valve during our modified s-drill which under these condition we would do at 10 - 15 feet rather than on the surface. In the meantime, however, the only way to get it on was to do it myself.

The point is, often there is more than one thing going on at a time (distractions) and stuff happens. One bit of confussion or difficulty leads to another. Best be able to reach your valve. Buddy checks are good but you are responsible for making sure your air is on. If someone else turns it off, you are still responsible for turning it back on.

 

[jepuskar]

I can hear Rob's response to this already...

If the waves were that rough and there was that much distraction, then the dive should have been aborted.

Right Rob? Come on Rob, I know thats what your thinking!

 

[Aquamaniac]

If you dont have good communication skills or have momentory lapses of reason ( ie what way is on) there is NO way you can be a Dive Master, thats not to say you cant be certified as a DM, I mean you cant BE a dive MASTER.

I have an electrical license, but I am NOT an electrician, and would never do the work of an electrician.
Why? Because I have not mastered the skills.

Seems to be a comminality there.....

 

[MikeFerrara]

jepuskar once bubbled...
I can hear Rob's response to this already...

If the waves were that rough and there was that much distraction, then the dive should have been aborted.

Right Rob? Come on Rob, I know thats what your thinking!

This is typical Great Lakes diving. There was nothing undoable about it. eight out of every ten of my Great Lakes dives are under just such conditions. In fact, I can recall, off the top of my head, only two days when I was out on flat 2 ft or less) seas. The point is people make mistakes and you need the ability to manage your own equipment. because you are responsible for you.

Now I suppose someone will mention the fact that I needed help getting my inflator. My first choice was to get help with it at the surface but what do you suppose I would have done of that hadn't been an option?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Aquamaniac once bubbled...
If you dont have good communication skills or have momentory lapses of reason ( ie what way is on) there is NO way you can be a Dive Master, thats not to say you cant be certified as a DM, I mean you cant BE a dive MASTER.

I have an electrical license, but I am NOT an electrician, and would never do the work of an electrician.
Why? Because I have not mastered the skills.

Seems to be a comminality there.....

How many divers have you seen in the water with there air off, or tanks falling off or equipment gangling? I'll bet that on a typical weekend at Gilboa I see at least half a dozen examples of such things. I have seen just as many on dive boats where a DM is checking everyone as they enter the water. Like I said you need to be and are ultimately the responsible party. Anyone who relies too much on a DM or a buddy WILL someday get a rude awakening.

 

[wetman]

Why is it that DMs actually do this? I've rarely had occasion to even have a DM around, but why on earth do they feel the need to do that to your air? I could see them checking it if for some reason if this has to do with liability, but as soon as they got past a half turn or so you'd think they should just mention it to you and ask permission to do anything at all to your setup. I wonder which happens more - people jump in with their air off or DMs turn it off. I'd say in 2 years of diving and maybe 2 boat dives with DMs, i'm at 50/50 fo good experiences to bad.

steve

 

[kwesler]

I wish I knew the answer to that one...maybe a DM will jump in. I can only guess that the DMs on the boat feel responsibility for the divers, and want to do all they can to prevent a problem. I DO wish they would ask if my air is on, or if I checked, or ask me to check it, rather than mess with my valve.

However, I am almost willing to bet $ that we can hear dozens of stories from DMs who were told nastily by a diver that everything is all set, only to find the air off. As we all discuss all the time, there is no level of experience that prevents you from forgetting something at some time. Most of the time you realize it yourself instantly. (last week I got up to stride in and thought "my feet feel funny"-no fins!)

Ken

 

[Uncle Pug]

Always look for the underlying motivation... why do folks argue so vociforously for their position on an issue.

In the thread at hand I submit that it is out of necessity that Rob is taking the stand that he is.

admittedly by being able to reach your own valve (something i would never be able to do because of my single setup) you may be able to solve them on your own.

No matter how many reasons are given for the necessity of being able to turn on/off your own valve(s) and no matter how compelling those reasons may be... the simple fact remains... some folks cannot reach their valve(s)!

Perhaps a better use of the thread would be to discover what helps & what hinders a diver when it comes to reaching their own valve(s).

I believe this was the original intent of the thread anyway

 

[MikeFerrara]

The recreational diving industry has evolved to allow non-divers underwater to view the reef. It is assumed from the start that the majority on the boat are totally incompetant. You are put in this catagory just by booking passage. Ever go horse back riding only to sit on a horse who followed the guid horse. Same thing, the tour is designed for non horsemen. Diveboats and there procedures are designed for non-divers.

My prediction is that it will get worse because the assunption of incompetance becomes more and more true.