re: Best Valve for Single Cylinder

[wetlettuce]

Hi

Having read the posts for a little while now I am looking at transitioning to DIR diving. (I'm also now concerned for my safety as you're such a cheerful lot !? Diving used to be fun !)

Based in the UK this is not straightforward as there are few outlets who know anything about it or care to know as everyone in the UK buys Buddy BC's (Gross generalisation)

I am asking for advice on the right valve for a single cylinder to fit two Din first stages and perhaps an idea on price and where to get them ?

Thanks

 

[pescador775]

There are branched single valves called Y valves and H valves that allow this; but why bother? The issue of equipment failure and diver 'running out of air' is overblown and a ripe area for vendor profit. The 'buddy vest' should do just fine. A few years ago, that would have been considered the epitome of extreme caution and functionality. It should be, still. Today, it seems that the idea of fun is somehow misinterpreted to mean new trick gear for Christmas, birthdays and any days in between. Keep it simple and leave the extra hoses unless you're planning a deep penetration. In which case, you would need multiple tanks also. Keep the fun, lose the rest and don't become an equipment nerd like the rest of us.

Pesky

 

[SPEEDSTER]

pescador775 once bubbled...
There are branched single valves called Y valves and H valves that allow this; but why bother? The issue of equipment failure and diver 'running out of air' is overblown and a ripe area for vendor profit. The 'buddy vest' should do just fine. A few years ago, that would have been considered the epitome of extreme caution and functionality. It should be, still. Today, it seems that the idea of fun is somehow misinterpreted to mean new trick gear for Christmas, birthdays and any days in between. Keep it simple and leave the extra hoses unless you're planning a deep penetration. In which case, you would need multiple tanks also. Keep the fun, lose the rest and don't become an equipment nerd like the rest of us.

Pesky

WHAT?!?

I can't believe you actually subscribe to that ideology!! Yeah sure, why bother with a little redundancy for safety's sake, its only your life you have at stake!! How can a diver running out of air or equipment failure be a ripe area for vendor profit? Maybe for spare air or something, but the original post didn't even ask about that, in fact they were asking about a DIR setup anyways. Do you know anything about DIR? If you did you would know that at the core of that philosophy is not using unneeded pieces of equipment (spair air) and trusting in murphy to come along and tug at every piece of gear your life depends on. Furthermore, a DIR approach doesn't use, in fact abhors 'new trick equipment' in favor of something that has been around for longer than most everyone here has been diving, ie bp/wings/harness. I'm not going to keep going on all the benefits of a DIR diving mindset/gear configuration, as it appears it would fall on deaf ears.

If you actually think you were posting a helpful response maybe you should reconsider posting at all.

-mike

 

[ScubaDan]

This is a link to Beuchat Dual outlet Valve

http://s1059kxm.leisurepro.com/weba...6&cgrfnbr=976&parentCategory=974&sort=prsdesc

That should be what you need to use both of your 1st stage DIN regulators with one tank.

I’m not sure why pescador775 would suggest redundancy is not needed for open water. I will be doing the same thing when I buy my tanks.

 

[kcanty]

But they are damn hard to find at a good
price. H valves are more available.

Pescador, I had a valve o-ring on a yoke
rental tank extrude at 80 feet while lobster
hunting about 5 months ago. It changed
a lot of things I do. You lose about 2000
psi in about one minute or so. The back of
my neck was freezing. I ended up orally
inflating on the surface. Kind of strange
as they usually show up on the surface
when you pressurize the reg, but this time
it didn't.

I hope it doesn't happen to you and if
it does you handle it well.

I know you can always do a swimming
ascent and I did, but afterwards I looked
back and thought I should have some
better options. THis led to me taking
a new direction in my diving which makes
me feel much better about my choices
and options.

Just my .02 cents.

Kell

 

[Dryglove]

ScubaDan once bubbled...
This is a link to Beuchat Dual outlet Valve

http://s1059kxm.leisurepro.com/weba...6&cgrfnbr=976&parentCategory=974&sort=prsdesc

That should be what you need to use both of your 1st stage DIN regulators with one tank.

I’m not sure why pescador775 would suggest redundancy is not needed for open water. I will be doing the same thing when I buy my tanks.

Ill be darn.I didnt even know leisurepro sold those valves.I have been looking for some at a decent price for a while.Looks like they are out of stock.I need to order a few of these when they get them in stock again.Thanks for the link!!

 

[Groundhog246]

Let me start by stating I am not, nor do I know a lot about DIR. But, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to put a double valve on a single tank. I think I'd opt for a fair size (30CF) pony tank and hang my second reg on it. If you've more than one cylinder, you'll need to refit them all (I've got 5 at the moment and may be ordering another tomorrow), so I'd expect the cost of a pony would be overall cheaper, than buying double valves. Of course be a biot cheaper, if you're buying new tanks, with a double instead on a single valve.
With a free flow or blown O-ring (although I'm not sure that applies the same with DIN connection), by the time you reach back and wind the valve closed, or have your buddy do it, how much air will you have lost? How much air will you have lost, before you realize you're losing air? Do you switch regs, before you start trying to close the valve, thus allowing more air loss, or close the valve and then switch regs, leaving you with a <hopefully> short spell of no air available (don't hold your breath)?

My only experience to date with a free flow, was a buddy's reg last spring in 55ffw about 8 minutes into the dive. I looked over and noticed a steady stream of bubbles from his second stage. Tapped his arm, pointed at his reg and unclipped my octo. He paused a moment, noticed his bubble stream, gave me a thumbs up and we both made a controlled ascent. As it happened he did not have to use my air.

 

[Rick Murchison]

"H" valves have the additional advanatge of being able to remove the "H" fitting and use the valve as a "K" valve or replace the "H" fitting with a manifold for doubles. You can do neither with the "Y" valve.
Rick

 

[Dryglove]

Groundhog246 once bubbled...
Let me start by stating I am not, nor do I know a lot about DIR. But, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to put a double valve on a single tank. I think I'd opt for a fair size (30CF) pony tank and hang my second reg on it. If you've more than one cylinder, you'll need to refit them all (I've got 5 at the moment and may be ordering another tomorrow), so I'd expect the cost of a pony would be overall cheaper, than buying double valves. Of course be a biot cheaper, if you're buying new tanks, with a double instead on a single valve.
With a free flow or blown O-ring (although I'm not sure that applies the same with DIN connection), by the time you reach back and wind the valve closed, or have your buddy do it, how much air will you have lost? How much air will you have lost, before you realize you're losing air? Do you switch regs, before you start trying to close the valve, thus allowing more air loss, or close the valve and then switch regs, leaving you with a <hopefully> short spell of no air available (don't hold your breath)?

My only experience to date with a free flow, was a buddy's reg last spring in 55ffw about 8 minutes into the dive. I looked over and noticed a steady stream of bubbles from his second stage. Tapped his arm, pointed at his reg and unclipped my octo. He paused a moment, noticed his bubble stream, gave me a thumbs up and we both made a controlled ascent. As it happened he did not have to use my air.

Actually it does make sense.Its about redundancy.Now you have two first stages with the option of shutting one of them down if you blow a hose,freeflow,etc,and still be able to breath off of your back up reg or primary reg depending which circuit went down.With one first stage you dont have the option of shutting one stage down if you blow a hose or if another problem arises.You just lose all your air.I would rather have the option of shuuting the air off to the affected side.Depending on what goes wrong i will still have air to my drysuit or bc.

For someone like you,a Y valve may not be cost effective with 5 tanks.I own two LP95 tanks and thats all i need,for now anyways

Eventually ill move to doubles.As for me im not really into pony bottles.I depend on my buddy and will someday have a set of manifolded doubles for use as my pony with the option of shutting down the effected problem.To me a Y valve makes excellent sense.You obviously prefer to use a pony bottle which is cool too.To me a pony is a pain unless rigged like a stage which is the only way i would carry one.Also like you i would not use anything smaller than a 30cuft tank.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Groundhog246 once bubbled...

First, I don't feel there is really a need for an H or Y valve on a single tank. Single tank diving should be kept well within recreational parameters IMO and equipment should be kept in good working order.

Second, a good buddy and good buddy skills are what is needed.

Third, if you need a redundant air source neither ponies nor spare airs are sufficient IMO. The way to go is a proper set of doubles.

Fourth, if you have blown o-ring you will know it!