Raider vs. Tech vs. S-Tek and BP/Wings???

[noshow]

HELP ME WISE PEOPLE!

I am currently preparing for a one stop shop of my first set of personal dive gear at my local dive shop. After deciding on my reg and drysuit, I am trying to decide between these three BC's.

1. The Seaquest Raider
2. The Zeagle Tech
3. The ScubaPro S-Tek.

I willl be diving mostly in British Columbia with a dry suit but also will be making trips to tropical locals annually. As a rookie diver I will be mostly be doing recreational dives to start but would like to move quickly into wreck diving and perhaps deeper dives . I am leaning to these types of BC's because I would like the product to be flexible and versatile as I discover the type of diving I enjoy and will do over the next few years. Perhaps two tank, deep, rescue, etc, etc.... maybe even divemaster. There is also the possibility that I may remain the weekend fun diver here in Vancouver.

I am leaning to the Raider as I compared it side by side withthe Zeagle Tech in my LDS and it looked great and very adjustable (i'm 6'4" 230lbs). I liked the weight system and the buckles.

SECONDLY, what are these BP/Wings the board is so enthused about. I am not familiar. Should I purchase these as my first BCD to be used with a dry suit?


Your opinions are eagerly anticipated.

No Show

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by noshow

what are these BP/Wings the board is so enthused about. I am not familiar. Should I purchase these as my first BCD to be used with a dry suit?

Yes.

www.halcyon.net will get you some pictures.

 

[Campana]

Anyway, noshow, you are a definite candidate for backplate and wings. If you really end up diving wrecks and deep and doubles, with a drysuit, you are going to end up with a backplate and wings.

The backplate is a metal plate that serves as a platform for mounting everything on. See the pics on the site Pug mentioned. The wings are the aircells that are sandwiched between the backplate and tanks, and provide the lift you need. The neat thing about a BP/W setup is that you can use different sized wings with different types of tanks. I have a small Halcyon for singles, and a larger Dive Rite for doubles. This allows you more versatility.

Despite the appearance, a BP/W is very comfortable. I have worn my aluminum backplate in the tropics with no exposure protection, even a t shirt, and it doesn't hurt your back.

After looking into the pics that pug mentioned, get a copy of "Doing it Right; the Fundamentals of Better Diving" by Jerrod Jablonski, and read it. Please heed this advice, because it will save you a lot of money on wasted equipment purchases. Why not start off with the rig you'll end up with?

Of Course if you don't, you can sell it all on ebay in a year like everyone else does.

 

[Scubaroo]

Originally posted by Campana
Of Course if you don't, you can sell it all on ebay in a year like everyone else does.

Or you can be like me, and sell it after two dives before buying the backplate/wing

 

[GeekDiver]

Noshow,

I too have recently made the same choice and am new to diving. I picked the Raider. I like how I could adjust every thing. The harness moves up and down, the sides are easy to adjust also you can reposition the weight. You will not have a problem wearing a drysuit with this BC and getting it to fit. I also like the weight setup better than the Zeagle also many of the features of the Raider are only options on the Zeagle. The Seaquest Black Diamond is another good BC that has a more rigid back and has the same type of weight setup as the Raider. You can get a crotch strap and there are options for a redundant Air cell and twin tanks.

I have not dove with a BP/wings so cannot offer a view on how they perform but have decided I will try BP/Wing setup in the near future.

Now why I decided not to go that way.

I have looked at the BP/Wings setup. I picked the Raider over a system like that due to large pockets, will hold 42 lbs of weight, and 50 lbs of lift. This would alow me to not have to wear a belt or strap stuff to my legs or have them dangle off a D-ring. I can fit my bluetang knife, PC light, Slate, RDP table, whistle and my snorkle all in one pocket. The bp/wings setup you would probley not have to wear as much weight but would most likely have to wear a belt. You can get an intergrated weight system and pockets for them but they would not hold the same amount of weight as a Raider or have the larger pockets which would kinda defeat the purpose of having a BP/wing setup anyways.

Some of the thought for getting them as expresed by others on this board are that they are much simpler, easy to configure, are more compact to pack, more streamlined (easer to get through the water) and of course if you ever decide to get into more tech or DIR diving youll have a head start on the equipment.

The best adv I can sug is like you'll hear over and over. try before you buy and see what works best for you. Hope this helps.

Good luck and best regards,
GD

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by GeekDiver
I have looked at the BP/Wings setup. I picked the Raider over a system like that due to large pockets, will hold 42 lbs of weight, and 50 lbs of lift. This would alow me to not have to wear a belt or strap stuff to my legs or have them dangle off a D-ring. I can fit my bluetang knife, PC light, Slate, RDP table, whistle and my snorkle all in one pocket. The bp/wings setup you would probley not have to wear as much weight but would most likely have to wear a belt. You can get an intergrated weight system and pockets for them but they would not hold the same amount of weight as a Raider or have the larger pockets which would kinda defeat the purpose of having a BP/wing setup anyways.

Some misconceptions here, I think. First, the Halcyon system offers ACB pockets in 10lb and 15lb sizes, meaning that you could put up to 30lbs in easily ditchable weight pockets. Since you're diving dry, you'd be better off with a stainless steel backplate, so there's another 6lbs.

You'll possibly want 2-4lbs more on your tank as keel weight. If you still need more weight, installing a v-weight (8-11lbs) might be another option. Personally, I can't imagine needing that much, but I don't know what type of drysuit and divewear you'll be using.

As for pockets, the optimum solution seems to be installing them on the outer thighs of your drysuit. This places them in the slipstream somewhat, especially if you're diving with stages or a canister light. A standard bellows pocket on your left and a flat pocket on your right should hold all the gear you might need.

One other caveat: 50lbs of lift on a single tank dive sounds excessive. Halcyon, rather than selling me a more expensive 45lb wing, strongly urged me to buy a 36lb instead. YMMV if you need all the weight mentioned above. I'd give Halcyon a call, tell them the details of what you want to do, and get their recommendation.

 

[GeekDiver]

metridium

Some misconceptions here, I think. First, the Halcyon system offers ACB pockets in 10lb and 15lb sizes, meaning that you could put up to 30lbs in easily ditchable weight pockets. Since you're diving dry, you'd be better off with a stainless steel backplate, so there's another 6lbs.

From my limited knowledge yes Halcyon does have options for intergrated weight. as well as pockets for stuff.

The Raider has 2 waight pouches that can hold 16 lbs ea for a tot of 32 lbs there is also 2 tank pouches 5 lbs ea for a tot of 10 lbs of non ditchable weight for a tot of 42 lbs of weight that you could load up with before haveing to wear a weight belt or add any other weight devices. The Raider also has 2 large pockets for stuffing whatever else you wanted to bring along.

The Raider has a 50 lb lift and does not have any other options to change lift capacity but does have an option for redundant air cell (not to be used to add lift )

As far as locations for Pockets I belive the DIR sug is not to have them on the waist (due to posible entanglements and to be more streamlined ) but to have them on the leg. I'm sure the DIR guys on the board could better address that.

For me I don't want a weight belt and I don't want to strap stuff to my legs.

If you added weight systems and pockets to the web harness of a BP wouldn't you just be adding the same things you were trying to get away from with a BC?

Regards,
GD

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by GeekDiver
The Raider has 2 waight pouches that can hold 16 lbs ea for a tot of 32 lbs there is also 2 tank pouches 5 lbs ea for a tot of 10 lbs of non ditchable weight for a tot of 42 lbs of weight that you could load up with before haveing to wear a weight belt or add any other weight devices. The Raider also has 2 large pockets for stuffing whatever else you wanted to bring along.

The Raider has a 50 lb lift and does not have any other options to change lift capacity but does have an option for redundant air cell (not to be used to add lift )

As far as locations for Pockets I belive the DIR sug is not to have them on the waist (due to posible entanglements and to be more streamlined ) but to have them on the leg. I'm sure the DIR guys on the board could better address that.

For me I don't want a weight belt and I don't want to strap stuff to my legs.

If you added weight systems and pockets to the web harness of a BP wouldn't you just be adding the same things you were trying to get away from with a BC?

Pockets on the belt would mean extra drag; you're right. Weight pockets are another matter. They're at the lower junction of the webbing and backplate, and so are behind your shoulders and arms when swimming horizontally. I really think their drag there is minimal.

The pockets on the drysuit thighs are not strapped on, but are rather permanently affixed. They are somewhat in the slipstream of your shoulders, too, though not as much as the weight pockets. However, it seems to me that they would be almost completely in the slipstream of a stage and canister light (as used in technical diving). I don't use either of those items yet, so I can't give a definite answer.

As for the 10lbs of weight around the tank on the Raider, you can easily thread one 5lb weight on each tank cam band (there are two) on your BP, placed to take trim into account. Take that ten pounds off the Raider weight calculations, and compare again.

BP with 15lb ACB and SS plate: 15+15+6= 36lb
Raider w/o back weights = 32lb

Both units can add 10lbs near the tank, so they cancel each other out.

Advantage: BP by 4lbs.

And then there are the streamlining and modularity advantages....

Have a great weekend.

 

[GeekDiver]

The tank weight on the Raider are attached to the BC and the straps wrap around tank and comes as a standard feature which will hold 5 lbs ea. (they are removable for twin tank diving. Weight pouches on the Raider can be configured to the rear of the BC to move it more into the slipstream.

Standard wieght possible without adding any additional options or devices to hold the weight.

Raider=42 tot weight
+10lbs weight added with additional cam strap/tank weight
=52 lbs

BP w/ SS plate=6 lbs
BP with 15lb ACB and SS plate: 15+15+6= 36lb (correct me if I'm wrong but the ACB weight system is an aval option)
+10lbs weight added with additional cam strap/tank weight
=42 lbs

Pockets with Raider and no Dry suit = 2ea.
Pockets with BP/wing and no Drysuit = 0ea.

Which would be more streamlined with out any mods or options
BP/wings

Regards,
GD

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by GeekDiver
Which would be more streamlined with out any mods or options

BP/wings

I have no idea why you need so much weight!!!

Shane uses a 75# lead belt and harness when he is geoducking but that is with no fins and just boots for walking around on the bottom...

Are you going without fins and just walking on the bottom

Diving a drysuit and a single steel tank with a 6# ss bp I use a 12# weight belt (I like the belt - more streamlinded)

That is a total of 18#... I use a 27# wing.

Tomorrow I will be trying Heath's new weight belt design with 16# and taking out 4# for the second dive to see how it works.