RAID Cave 1 - Good Course?

[rjack321]

I suspect that problem existed as soon as he hit the water. Probably didn't realize it was leaking as he kitted up.

Watch the video again
It is perfectly fine until 0:47

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Watch the video again
It is perfectly fine until 0:47

Ah, needed to put on my glasses and watch it full screen.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

Side mount is a great tool, where needed. Restrictions and health issues are both good examples.

SM because it’s become the latest fad - not a good reason.

Someone just learning to cave dive isn’t going in places that require SM. Better to start in BM and progress to SM if necessary. Most will never progress to the point where they need SM anyway.

 

[barth]

I also said even switch. Any additional failure points in SM are matched by failure points with an isolator in doubles. In fact IMHO, isolated doubles have proven to be more problematic than what it is supposed to do for safety.

Cave 1 is just 2 tanks.

I have never seen an isolator failure. I have seen regulator failures. I have also seen a lot of free flowing regulators.

If there were a lot of problems with isolators I was probably diving sidemount or independent doubles. But there are (almost) never problems with isolators.

Even when there is a manifold or isolator failure you will loose maximal half of your gas.

With a regulator failure with doubles you close the right valve. You can still use all your gas and just thumb the dive. When you have the same situation in sidemount it will be more complicated. How can a cave 1 diver with 2 sidemount tanks solve this problem ?

 

[cerich]

Cave 1 is just 2 tanks.

I have never seen an isolator failure. I have seen regulator failures. I have also seen a lot of free flowing regulators.

If there were a lot of problems with isolators I was probably diving sidemount or independent doubles. But there are (almost) never problems with isolators.

Even when there is a manifold or isolator failure you will loose maximal half of your gas.

With a regulator failure with doubles you close the right valve. You can still use all your gas and just thumb the dive. When you have the same situation in sidemount it will be more complicated. How can a cave 1 diver with 2 sidemount tanks solve this problem ?

Many deaths can be directly related to isolator issues. Many more than from burst disk or neck o ring failures that the isolator is there to solve

 

[JohnnyC]

Many? Maybe a handful. There are plenty of other things that kill divers far more reliably than an isolator.

Swapping regs underwater is sketchy at best. So is hot lipping a valve. I can do both, in sterile training environments. I really doubt that anyone's success in performing either is going up when they have to do it in anger.

I backmount, I sidemount, I dive a rebreather. Sidemount is my last choice, and only when it's the tool best suited to the job. I get that it's the bandwagon, but it has concrete disadvantages to backmount in many scenarios.

 

[rjack321]

With a regulator failure with doubles you close the right valve. You can still use all your gas and just thumb the dive. When you have the same situation in sidemount it will be more complicated. How can a cave 1 diver with 2 sidemount tanks solve this problem ?

In theory they have enough to exit, assuming they alternated tanks properly. Its just a more urgent exit because the gas in the tank with the reg failure may be functionally inaccessible. Or you might be able to feather the valve to access some of it. I don't have a problem with SM, unfortunately it's sold as a panacea for everything lately.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Many deaths can be directly related to isolator issues. Many more than from burst disk or neck o ring failures that the isolator is there to solve

Can you provide a couple of examples? I assume you mostly mean instances where the isolator was closed and a diver breathed the whole tank down. I could argue that these were diver error and complacency—not checking tank pressure even one time 5-10+ min into a dive. As a friendly debate, I’ll give you these “manifold” failure deaths, but then I get the sidemount roll-off deaths—starting with the one in Peacock a couple of years ago.



I’m one of those right tool for the job guys, but I will admit SM has a purpose and is a necessity for certain divers. The one argument I won’t accept is that SM is EASIER off a boat. Manageable, sure—equipment lines, bolt snaps, etc, but BM anything is easier, especially in rough seas.

 

[rjack321]

Can you provide a couple of examples? I assume you mostly mean instances where the isolator was closed and a diver breathed the whole tank down. I could argue that these were diver error and complacency—not checking tank pressure even one time 5-10+ min into a dive. As a friendly debate, I’ll give you these “manifold” failure deaths, but then I get the sidemount roll-off deaths—starting with the one in Peacock a couple of years ago.

One woman quite a few years ago ended up with pure helium in her right tank. The left was breathable and supposedly the one she analyzed. It was a filling error but due to a closed isolator. She passed out from hypoxia but was recovered and after a long period of rehab she is alive and well - and even dove again. She was from the Tampa St Pete area and her name is Judy but I forgot her last name.

 

[cerich]

but SM anything is easier, especially in rough seas.

fixed it for ya..

if you SM and expect the tanks handed and taken from you, you are correct. If you know how to use them and enter and exit with them, MUCH easier than doubles in rough seas