R109 Sealing Issue

[redacted]

The springs for the BA are supported by Scubapro. When I bought some from a dealer 2 years ago, they were $2.50 each. It is the same spring as is used in the S-series and G-250xx regs as well as the R-series. It is used under quite a bit more compression in the R-series. Part # 01.060.216

 

[Zung]

Do you mean 01-020-216?
This part number is on the BA, G250HP, G250V, G500, R190, R380, S550 and S600 schematics.

 

[redacted]

Do you mean 01-020-216?
This part number is on the BA, G250HP, G250V, G500, R190, R380, S550 and S600 schematics.

Yes. 020s are springs and 060s are washers. I thought I could do it without glasses.

 

[Zung]

... It is the same spring as is used in the S-series and G-250xx regs as well as the R-series...

Good info. I'll ask the LDS to keep more in stock since they're common to most SP 2nd's. Not that they wear much, but they have this bad habit of escaping and flying all over the place...

 

[halocline]

They do occasionally wear out. A friend's G250 became difficult to tune at a stable cracking pressure; I looked at the spring and it was almost ready to break.

 

[jacked_72]

My ebay magnehelic came today and I tested the cracking pressure on my two R109s. It proved to me that while I was able to improve on the hesitation issue by switching out the levers, the best I can can adjust the cracking pressure is about 1.6". The other I can adjust down to about .8"

I'm out of air right now so, I'm done for the day, but I played around with switching out diaphragms between the two. The lighter color diaphragm comes from the "good" 109. The black one comes with the reg causing the problems. As you can see, the center disk on the black diaphragm is smaller than an inch and the other is slightly larger than one inch. The center disk on the black diaphragm is plastic and is marked "patent pending." If you compare the two in a profile view, the black one is about 1/16" taller than the other. I'm not sure that the black one is a OEM Scubapro part or whether it is an aftermarket part. Switching out the diaphragms does seem to make a difference, but I've got to get more air to make sure.

Right now it looks like the problem may be a combination of the levers and the diaphragm. Looks like I'm in for more parts swapping tomorrow.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Your ruler is in the way but the black one looks like the newer of the two. The big change was from black rubber to silicone which was much more flexible, the light translucent version on the right was replaced by a couple different shades of blue then orange and black made an appearance before going with the current clear version.

If the poppet is binding on the lever you should be able to feel it compared to the other one. It may also just be an excessively stiff spring. Swapping parts will tell you a lot if you have one that works well and one that does not.

 

[Zung]

Calling all gurus: is there any noticeable difference between the various silicone diaphragms?
I've not been able to feel or measure anything major among those that I have:

• Tan
• Black, smooth
• Black with 4 "bibs" on the outside
• Blue
• Light blue with an elaborate (non-conical) shape: these I haven't tried yet
• Clear

 

[Couv]

I haven't experimented with the different diaphragms......sounds like a job for Herman.

The only changes I've made were after I saw a bit of etching in the disc, I either polish them out or rotate it 90 degrees to the direction of the marks. Even then, I havn't noticed any difference.

I used to sell SAS regulators that have a small knob of Teflon on the lever where it interfaces with the disc. That always seemed like a good idea; perhaps a small Teflon sleeve on the SP lever would be a modification worth considering.

c

 

[jacked_72]

I did some part switching between the two regulators and have had a revelation which may or may not mean anything. Let me know what you think.

The angle of the feet of the levers vary slightly. I've read the R109 Lever Height (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/repairing-your-own-gear/336647-r109-lever-height.html) thread and understand about the different levers that have been produced over the years. If I am doing the tuning correct, I think it is the levers that are holding me back. From what I've read, the way to tune these regs is to tighten the orifice until the regulator just stops free flowing without the diaphragm installed. At this point I understand that the lever should be about flush with the top of the case. My trouble is that the lever seems to be higher than it should because when I put on the diaphragm, rubber disk and metal cover, the thing free flows like crazy and I've got to tighten down the orifice again (lowering the lever height I presume) until the free flow stops. I am presuming that this is creating a greater amount of spring tension causing the cracking pressure to be higher than it should be. I can remove the D clip near the adjustment knob and back the knob out farther than its supposed to go and it breathes well with a good cracking pressure.

Do my procedures and theory make sense? There is about an 1/8" difference between the lever heights when the reg is tuned to stop free flowing with the diaphragm off. Not surprisingly, the one with the lower lever height breathes better.

So, I think I'm in the market for a new lever to give that a try. I'm reluctant to start bending the feet of the levers I have until I get a new one.