Question on differences between Scubapro c200/c300. Cost vs. benefit

[halocline]

Getting back to your original question about the differences between the C200 and C300, I personally don't think the user adjustment is worth spending a lot of extra money on. It is convenient for your alternate, to prevent free flows while you enter the water and get going. But, $475 is a LOT of money IMO for a first and second stage, especially a mid-level un-sealed diaphragm 1st and an unbalanced 2nd, even though it has kind of a fancy new lever that is supposed to improve the geometry of the reg. A somewhat similar reg would be the aqualung titan for significantly less.

The whole free-parts-warranty service bit is kind of a scam and SP is abandoning it anyway. And local service is convenient IF the service tech is good. Around here there have been lots of problems and it's outrageously expensive (at least at one dive shop). So, if I did not DIY, I would be sending my regs for service to someone else anyway.

I don't know what to make about your shop's remark "you can upgrade for cold water..." The rest of your quote didn't make sense to me, so I bet there was a little mis-communication. Basically, for very cold water, SP makes a reg similar to the MK11 called the MK17, which has a sealed ambient chamber. These are both 1st stages. Unless I'm mistaken, there is no upgrading the MK11 to a MK17 unless you replace it. The 2nd stage choice is not as important for very cold water, but that's a separate issue.

 

[ams511]

First, scuba diving has a very high drop out rate. Dive shops know this and realize they have one chance to sell you the gear now that you are excited about diving. They will also tell you a bunch of BS, they did this to me. They also are doing this to you. As mentioned, A MK-11 cannot be upgraded into a MK-17. Unless there is something new there is not a cold-water kit for a MK-11. This alone would lead me to seek a different dive shop.

Second, new and improved in scuba usually means more profitable for the manufacturer and the shop. It does not mean significantly better performance. The ancient looking set that Knowone posted will breath as well (maybe better) than a MK-11 / C200.

Third, free parts are a rip-off. For Scubapro you need to pay to get the reg serviced every year $75-$100 in order to get free parts which costs Scubapro a dollar or two. Your friendly diveshop marks up the parts at least 100%. So they make money on the service and the parts. Also free parts for life is being discontinued unless you buy a whole set from Scubapro so it does not matter. Remember if you miss a service or are late now you are out of the program.

 

[redacted]

I will pay glady pay for the piece of mind.

Dave

I get piece of mind by knowing I am not wasting $$$ for unnecessary (and occasionally poorly performed) service and by verifying, for myself, that my regulators are fully operational.

If you spend some of that $$ instead to learn more about your regulators and how you can inspect them to insure they are in good working order, the piece of mind you achieve is more likely to real and justified. Most regulator problem with reasonably cared for rigs occur shortly after service due to service errors. Thankfully, serious regulator problems, in general, are rather rare as they are simple, well built devices.

 

[Couv]

......I will pay glady pay for the piece of mind. Dave

Dave, you can't pay for piece of mind when it comes to scuba. You must learn how to inspect it yourself. Here's a a place to start: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/346813-regulator-inspection-checklist-rev-7-a.html

 

[TT_Vert]

Apparently there is a cold water kit that makes it similar to the mk17 from what I was told. A cold water first stage is really not a concern to me now as I dive in warm water exclusively. Are there generally other parts that must be replaced every few years outside of the maintenance provided by the free annual service? That 475 was just for the mk11 first and one c300 2nd stage so I still need an alternate. I think I should get a first stage with a yolk valve as most of the places we dive have yolk valve tanks. I've read that the din/yolk adapters stick out about an inch more and I already hit my head on the tank on occasion. I'm not opposed to doing my own rebuilds but I'm not sure if I could even get service parts.



.

Getting back to your original question about the differences between the C200 and C300, I personally don't think the user adjustment is worth spending a lot of extra money on. It is convenient for your alternate, to prevent free flows while you enter the water and get going. But, $475 is a LOT of money IMO for a first and second stage, especially a mid-level un-sealed diaphragm 1st and an unbalanced 2nd, even though it has kind of a fancy new lever that is supposed to improve the geometry of the reg. A somewhat similar reg would be the aqualung titan for significantly less.

The whole free-parts-warranty service bit is kind of a scam and SP is abandoning it anyway. And local service is convenient IF the service tech is good. Around here there have been lots of problems and it's outrageously expensive (at least at one dive shop). So, if I did not DIY, I would be sending my regs for service to someone else anyway.

I don't know what to make about your shop's remark "you can upgrade for cold water..." The rest of your quote didn't make sense to me, so I bet there was a little mis-communication. Basically, for very cold water, SP makes a reg similar to the MK11 called the MK17, which has a sealed ambient chamber. These are both 1st stages. Unless I'm mistaken, there is no upgrading the MK11 to a MK17 unless you replace it. The 2nd stage choice is not as important for very cold water, but that's a separate issue.

 

[TT_Vert]

I will certainly inspect every piece of life support equipment Before every dive. I don't mean I would neglect my gear I meant piece of mind knowing my gear is being serviced annually and testing by a trained professional.

Dave, you can't pay for piece of mind when it comes to scuba. You must learn how to inspect it yourself. Here's a a place to start: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/346813-regulator-inspection-checklist-rev-7-a.html

 

[redacted]

I will certainly inspect every piece of life support equipment Before every dive. I don't mean I would neglect my gear I meant piece of mind knowing my gear is being serviced annually and testing by a trained professional.

Life Support!!! If you are planning and executing your dives properly, the loss of your regulator is a major inconvenience, but not life threatening.

You may be in for some disappointment in what you find in these "trained professionals". While some are quite good, a few can spoil a vacation for you. And the tire change specialist at Walmart may have more training (and be higher paid).

 

[halocline]

I don't mean I would neglect my gear I meant piece of mind knowing my gear is being serviced annually and testing by a trained professional.

i have to chuckle at this because if you knew the "training" that's required of the "professionals" you wouldn't have much "peace" of mind, but hopefully you'd still have "piece(s)" of mind all in the right places... The problem is, as awap said, it's really hit-or-miss with local dive shop service. It's not very complicated to work on regulators; people-lots of them-routinely do far more complicated (and potentially dangerous) work on their cars. We DIYers have a bit of a chip on our shoulders because the scuba industry attempts to restrict the sale of parts and promulgates this "life support" fantasy, while only requiring the 'professionals' who work on this supposed life-sustaining equipment to undergo a 2 day no-fail seminar with zero exams, peer reviews, state licensing boards, etc...

So the tech at your shop might be terrific, he might be a hack, you really have no way of knowing or evaluating other than offering up your reg and seeing what transpires. Thankfully, two things come into play with this: 1) most regulator service really is quite simple for anyone who can follow instructions and is somewhat mechanically inclined, and 2) regulator failure should never cause death or injury in recreational diving; actually any diving, but that's a different topic. A large part of your OW class involves air sharing, cesa, maybe even buddy breathing, and of course you dive with a buddy, so even if your regulator stops working, unless you are diving irresponsibly you'll have access to air to get to the surface safely.

Anyhow, get the regulator you want, and at some point if you want to get into servicing it yourself there are plenty of helpful people on this forum.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

i have to chuckle at this because if you knew the "training" that's required of the "professionals" you wouldn't have much "peace" of mind, but hopefully you'd still have "piece(s)" of mind all in the right places... The problem is, as awap said, it's really hit-or-miss with local dive shop service. It's not very complicated to work on regulators; people-lots of them-routinely do far more complicated (and potentially dangerous) work on their cars. We DIYers have a bit of a chip on our shoulders because the scuba industry attempts to restrict the sale of parts and promulgates this "life support" fantasy, while only requiring the 'professionals' who work on this supposed life-sustaining equipment to undergo a 2 day no-fail seminar with zero exams, peer reviews, state licensing boards, etc...

So the tech at your shop might be terrific, he might be a hack, you really have no way of knowing or evaluating other than offering up your reg and seeing what transpires. Thankfully, two things come into play with this: 1) most regulator service really is quite simple for anyone who can follow instructions and is somewhat mechanically inclined, and 2) regulator failure should never cause death or injury in recreational diving; actually any diving, but that's a different topic. A large part of your OW class involves air sharing, cesa, maybe even buddy breathing, and of course you dive with a buddy, so even if your regulator stops working, unless you are diving irresponsibly you'll have access to air to get to the surface safely.

Anyhow, get the regulator you want, and at some point if you want to get into servicing it yourself there are plenty of helpful people on this forum.

When I was an auto body technician we finally had to start attending ICAR classes and get ASE certified to continue working as techs at a certain shop.
The training involved anti lock brakes, air bags, sensors, compoters, a mig welding certification, and on and on.
This was because vehicles finally evolved to such a level where any Joe Blow couldn't just work on them if it involved anything safety related.
In that sense a vehicle is actually more "life support" that a scuba regulator because if brakes go out or a front suspension was not assembles right it could spell disaster, yet we can go to a parts counter and buy any part for the vehicle and install it ourselves.
Some of these LDS techs, I have to really wonder. I watched a kid once fumble and bumble for 45 minutes trying to assemble a new reg for a guy with hoses, octo, console, etc.

Think about this, a hairdresser has to go through a school and get a license to be able to cut your hair but an LDS working on "life support equipment" (as some people put it) doesn't need sh_t.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Deleated,
Duplicate post