(Question for Instructors)Time in confined water OWD course

[Graeme Fraser]

No way I'd consider CW1-5 being completed to minimum standards, even if the students were reasonably natural.

We've seen a few 'dodgy' referrals in the past. Our CD once had a student referred to him with none of the dive flexible skills completed on his student record. When he called the referring LDS to ask if these had been missed by mistake, they said never do these skills as they're flexible so they didn't need too

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

On the plus side, PADI does send out random quality control emails to recently certified divers with some pointed questions that are intended to ferret out incomplete training and "shortcut" practices such as these. (No, I haven't seen what one looks like.)

On the other side, it is obvious that they don't send out enough and/or ask enough to nip these practices in the bud.

I wouldn't be surprised if some people occasionally fill in the forms incorrectly, as in "I'll say yes that we did this, because we did so much stuff, and I don't remember everything." I'm a big proponent of video, despite the fact that fatalities have occurred due to distracted instructors (seriously, just film your students and use it as a training tool). That's why I like to use tripods for confined water or a non assisting diver recording. If such videos were mandatory so that spot checks could be performed, I think it would help. However, logistically, this isn't practical. There are so many mills with spotty internet access that uploading even low resolution video is impractical. I will say that UTD and RAID are quite good though at having instructors publish videos (with students permission of course).

 

[dcg69]

When he called the referring LDS to ask if these had been missed by mistake, they said never do these skills as they're flexible so they didn't need too

That's interesting, it also happened to me that a fresh Instructor genuinely thought "flexible skills=not mandatory skills" ... luckily I could correct him at his first OWD course already.

 

[Firebar]

2 hours sounds very short. When I did my basic skills (BSAC Ocean Diver) we did 5 sessions that ran like this:

2030: Arrive at pool
2035: Dry brief plan
2040: Change
2045: Prepare kit
2100: Swimming Club leave pool, we get in
2200: Get out of pool
2205: Rinse Kit, shower and wet debrief
2210: Change
2215: Break Down kit and dry debrief
2225: Take kit to cars then chat until we all had to go home.

Each session when you included chatting and debriefing ended up being closer to 2 hours total. Two of these sessions were also in a drysuit.

 

[cerich]

I wouldn't be surprised if some people occasionally fill in the forms incorrectly, as in "I'll say yes that we did this, because we did so much stuff, and I don't remember everything." I'm a big proponent of video, despite the fact that fatalities have occurred due to distracted instructors (seriously, just film your students and use it as a training tool). That's why I like to use tripods for confined water or a non assisting diver recording. If such videos were mandatory so that spot checks could be performed, I think it would help. However, logistically, this isn't practical. There are so many mills with spotty internet access that uploading even low resolution video is impractical. I will say that UTD and RAID are quite good though at having instructors publish videos (with students permission of course).

as long as it is a hand free camera or an assistant filming, otherwise, no to filming students, it is a distraction by itself

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

as long as it is a hand free camera or an assistant filming, otherwise, no to filming students, it is a distraction by itself

If the assistant is only filming and is not assisting the course in any other way, then I agree. Plus footage should be of students doing skills and nothing else.

 

[mmerriman]

If the assistant is filming he's not assisting. I recall (can't find the reference) PADI stating that filming OW classes is frowned upon.

 

[cerich]

If the assistant is filming he's not assisting. I recall (can't find the reference) PADI stating that filming OW classes is frowned upon.

If I am using video in debriefing students, and I have someone doing the shooting, they are assisting me with the class. I would not count any assistant who is shooting towards ratios, because it would be stupid and irresponsible to do so.

You seem to be confusing the use of the term assistant for ratios with using an assistant that does not count towards ratios.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

IPADI stating that filming OW classes is frowned upon.

This is hilarious. What is PADI so afraid of to allow filming when it has been proven in so many sports to be hugely beneficial to training? Don’t answer that.

If I am using video in debriefing students, and I have someone doing the shooting, they are assisting me with the class. I would not count any assistant who is shooting towards ratios, because it would be stupid and irresponsible to do so.

You seem to be confusing the use of the term assistant for ratios with using an assistant that does not count towards ratios.

I like teaching 2 students at once as an independent so I’m not concerned about how any agency treats either a dive pro or an experienced diver I trust enough for tech dives

 

[cerich]

This is hilarious. What is PADI so afraid of to allow filming when it has been proven in so many sports to be hugely beneficial to training? Don’t answer that.

they don't want the instructor paying attention to filming versus paying attention to the students and having greater situational awareness. I completely agree with that position. Students have died in courses while the instructor is busy being a videographer versus instructor.