(Question for Instructors)Time in confined water OWD course

[JackD342]

2h for ALL 5 sessions with 1 or 2 students...

So 1x2=2
and not
2x5=10
Right? Not possible. Good luck.

 

[yle]

I know that everything depends on the student, if they are fast or they have a problems with one exercise... but How much time do you use to do all 5 Confined water sessions to a Open Water Diver Course?

The thing is that in the dive center where I work they give me 1.5h-2h from the moment the student comes to the moment they finish. And I feel that I have no enough time to do a proper course so instead I have to rush everything... So it's me that I am slow or it is not enough time to do a proper course?

A reasonable amount of time really depends on how many students you have at once and how adept they are at handling the skills. Because my previous shop allowed me unlimited use of the pool and did not pay me by the hour, I would typically spend 10 to 12 hours in the pool with a class of 6 students. The pace was very relaxed and gave the students plenty of time to practice their skills. I never had a major problem with a student during their OW dives and even minor problems were very rare.

Only 2 hours for all five CW sections? If you have just one student (i.e. you're working one-on-one with them) and they have no problems with the skills, and you rush through it (i.e. no time spent on idle conversation, being friendly, joking, etc...) then I think you could get through all 5 CW sessions in a way that technically meets standards. But it's hard to believe the student would actually learn anything that they would remember.

If your CW sessions are adequate, your problems in OW should be minimal and rare. Keep track of your problems in OW and use that as a way to judge the effectiveness of your CW sessions. You might not be able to change the policy of your shop, but at least you'll learn a lot as an instructor.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Just as a datapoint, when I did my PADI OW, I was in a class of about 10, one instructor, one DM. We had a 4 hour pool session and we skipped a number of skills, including but not limited to: skin diving, CESA practice, and all of CW5.

 

[yle]

Hmmm... was just thinking some more about this.

10 minute float and 200 m swim: 15 minutes (optimistic, I know...)
Assemble and disassemble gear five times: 20 minutes (again, optimistic... assume 4 minutes per cycle)

Just those two items will take 35 minutes at least, if you're moving fast (rushing the students, probably stressing them out.) And we haven't even started on the actual skills yet of the five CW sessions.

Maybe you could make a list of the skills and ask your shop (i.e. whoever is demanding that you do this in 2 hours) for a recommended breakdown on how long each skill should take. Ask them for guidance so you can keep the customers safe and happy. Either they will have to realize that two hours is unrealistic, or they'll tell you to just "figure it out" (which basically means "cut corners wherever you need to.")

Then you'll have to decide whether you can continue working under these conditions.

 

[yle]

Just as a datapoint, when I did my PADI OW, I was in a class of about 10, one instructor, one DM. We had a 4 hour pool session and we skipped a number of skills, including but not limited to: skin diving, CESA practice, and all of CW5.

It seems that the time necessary to do things right increases exponentially with the number of students. I could probably do things properly, at a relaxed pace, in 8 hours with a class of six. A class of 10?? Oh goodness, I'd probably use twice that amount of time.

It is weird that some instructors and shops treat CW time the way they do: as something to rush through just to check the boxes so we can claim everyone is now ready for the ocean. I've always thought that what you wrote above is obvious: CW is where students learn how to dive, and we just confirm that by taking them to the ocean. But I get the feeling we're in the minority.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It seems that the time necessary to do things right increases exponentially with the number of students. I could probably do things properly, at a relaxed pace, in 8 hours with a class of six. A class of 10?? Oh goodness, I'd probably use twice that amount of time.

It is weird that some instructors and shops treat CW time the way they do: as something to rush through just to check the boxes so we can claim everyone is now ready for the ocean. I've always thought that what you wrote above is obvious: CW is where students learn how to dive, and we just confirm that by taking them to the ocean. But I get the feeling we're in the minority.

I forgot that we assembled our scuba kit once. Corners have to be cut when there isn't time, and most people have no idea when that happens. This whole discussion is a reflection of one of the problems in this industry. My own opinion is that poorly trained divers typically do not continue to dive. Properly trained divers do. That's at least my experience from when I started out (and sucked) versus today (not great, but better). Very few of my first students still dive, most of my recent ones do. While that sample size isn't statistically significant, I do think that there is a trend.

 

[yle]

I forgot that we assembled our scuba kit once.

Oy...

Corners have to be cut when there isn't time, and most people have no idea when that happens.

True... although PADI does a good job of giving the students, in the OW manual, an outline of the CW sessions. Students that read the manual and pay attention should be able to figure out if anything was skipped over. In practice, many students do the online option, so they don't have the manual, and many of those that do have the manual probably don't bother looking at the CW info.

This whole discussion is a reflection of one of the problems in this industry. My own opinion is that poorly trained divers typically do not continue to dive. Properly trained divers do.

Very true... that first OW dive tends to either hook divers or not. If they are properly prepared, they're hooked.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Students that read the manual and pay attention should be able to figure out if anything was skipped over. In practice, many students do the online option, so they don't have the manual, and many of those that do have the manual probably don't bother looking at the CW info..

There is a fair bit of new material in OW, so even if they have read it, the issue is whether they retained everything and then go back after their CW sessions to compare. I think very few people will do that. I'm guilty as I know I didn't. I think a lot of people put trust in their instructors that they will not be cutting corners.

 

[JackD342]

On the plus side, PADI does send out random quality control emails to recently certified divers with some pointed questions that are intended to ferret out incomplete training and "shortcut" practices such as these. (No, I haven't seen what one looks like.)

On the other side, it is obvious that they don't send out enough and/or ask enough to nip these practices in the bud.

 

[cerich]

Thank you all!
All of you are saying my thoughts.

And as "wetb4igetinthewater" said my focus in the buoyancy. I guess that a resort is a factory of divers, in fact the students normally stay one week, this means 3-4 days for the course.

Again Thank you all and I will do my best knowing that my time is short.

try a neutral buoyancy bar in Open water