Question for DM's & anyone who works on a boat....

[RJP]

I don't understand from this why it is more dangerous to take off your fins before you get out of the water than on a swim platform in rough seas.

I think "swim platform" and "on the boat" are the same thing. The point I think is that until you are out of the water - and to me if you are on the ladder you are STILL in the water - you might not be done with your fins just yet!



If you slipped off the ladder you might end up a few feet away from it. If the seas are hopping you will definitely want to be! In a dry suit and double steel 119s it will be d@mn hard to get yourself back to the ladder, even in relatively calm seas, without fins.

This is of course if the ladder is a "fins on" type. If you must remove your fins to use the ladder, then that's another story.

Me? I would keep my fins on and my reg in my mouth until we're back at the dock and I'm getting into my car if I could!

 

[Scubakevdm]

Why do you keep setting up the red herring of taking fins off on a swim platform? You take them off after you are seated on the dive boat and tank secured, not on the platform.

Because I was replying to the guy who said this:

Trying to exit having first removed kit is in my view dangerous. A diver should remain fully kitted until fully back on board if its a hard boat.
THEN you remove fins and walk to the seat.
Most sane hard boats have ropes about head height to use as grab support as well.

Pretty essential in rough weather.

After I said this:

I think it's alot easier to walk around without fins on, especially if what I'm walking around on is slippery and moving in every direction while the g-forces change.

Which makes it a bit less of a red herring. It's a legitimate trade off between the dangers to the divers and those around him caused by walking around on a boat with gear and fins on in rough seas and the dangers of floating in the water with no fins on in rough seas.


As hard as I try I can't really think of too many situations where being in the water without fins on is actually dangerous. Let me preface these remarks by saying that we do not anchor or moor when we dive, everything is done "live". The risk of a diver being crushed by the boat or swim platform (I have never ever seen seas rough enough to bring the ladder up out of the water so the likelihood of a diver on the water's surface being crushed by it seems pretty remote to me.) is completely eliminated by picking up divers with following seas. (swells are completely irrelevant in this, because they only really affect boarding a ladder if you are in or near the surf-zone) this is chop, or wind blown seas. The wind blows the boat away from the diver, so if he should fall in, he won't get crushed. I have seen many divers fall back in without fins on, it's really not a big deal, we just come back around and pick them up again.
I have seen in five years of working on the back of dive boats full time as my only job, zero ladder crushing injuries, one guy hit with the platform because the captain always picked up into the wind, and multiple injuries caused by falling while geared up, either onto other divers in the water or while walking on the boat.

 

[The Chairman]

One that comes to mind happened about 4 years ago when a diver of near 300lbs fell off the ladder onto a diver below. It clean knocked him unconscious.:11:

The problem here was NOT the large diver as I see both large and small get "thrown" back in. It's not "IF" a diver will fall off of the ladder, but when. The problem is either with the following diver putting his nose up the other's butt or the Boat personnel who do not watch for this and get them out of the way. It might even be a combination of those two, but it is NOT the first diver's problem.

As for the various types of ladders, my fins ALWAYS come off and I find not doing so to be far more dangerous. They slip over my arms and I NEVER EVER give them to the attending dive master. If I should find myself in the soup, I can always slip them back on, but I would MUCH rather grab the tag line again.

 

[diver 85]

What would you clip them with? I have spring straps, and do believe they are easier. But sporting extra clips - either on the D-rings or on my fins - that are not needed is not.

Put a snap bolt on each side of your upper D rings, they will not be in your way & hook each fin thru the finger loop of your spring straps....fins will hang just right & be out of the way...

 

[divechik]

My hubby got injured doing a giant stride into the ocean. The boat had a tree ladder in the center of the rear platform. He was to the left of the ladder. As he was giant striding in, the ladder jumped due to the seas, so as he went down, the ladder was coming up. He wasn't far enough over, or his leg swung wide or something. Ladder nailed his calf and he got cut. I didn't realize what had happened. His fin was knocked off, and I saw that and helped him with it, but he didn't indicate he had a wound (maybe he didn't realize it had torn flesh--probably thought it was a bad bruise) until after the dive. After the dive, I had to do some 1st aid on him--I scolded him for not telling me he was bleeding during the dive!!! Guys--sheesh!

 

[ReefHound]

You can do it OR simply clip each one to a left & right upper D ring on your BC......In other words, spring straps are easier........

Not on the Fling----their specific orders are to remove fins once you hit the tag& run them up your arm to your elbows....In a 5 knot current fins aren't going to help, you won't have time to ditch them once you get to the ladders.....

I don't remember them mentioning "elbows"... their point is that you remove the fins while on the line, secure them (looping over the arms is one way), and approaching the ladder hands-free.

 

[fisheyeview]

I have seen people get their fingers caught between the ladder and the swim platform when trying to climb aboard. Most dive ops (ScubaKev's included) warn people not to grab the ladder where they might get caught.

The best platform injury I saw was a diver trying to swim onto the platform on the old Captain Crunch in Key Largo back in the early 80's. They had a swim aboard platform. The diver miss timed it and went mask first into the edge of the platform at full speed. He hit it hard enough to brake the mask.

 

[diver 85]

What would you clip them with? I have spring straps, and do believe they are easier. But sporting extra clips - either on the D-rings or on my fins - that are not needed is not.

I sort of found what I use, similar to the top left one(in SS).......in fact I carry 2 on each upper left & right D ring(can hook anything on like glosev, extra small lite, table charts, fish ID charts etc etc)

Can't get the picture to come up here using this computer, you will have to click the link, sorry...

http://qingdao-jinmaocheng-import-.tradenote.net/images/users/000/391/906/products_images/541299.jpg

 

[Scubakevdm]

I sort of found what I use, similar to the top left one(in SS).......in fact I carry 2 on each upper left & right D ring(can hook anything on like glosev, extra small lite, table charts, fish ID charts etc etc)

Can't get the picture to come up here using this computer, you will have to click the link, sorry...

http://qingdao-jinmaocheng-import-.tradenote.net/images/users/000/391/906/products_images/541299.jpg

Here you go. Though I think that your idea may meet some resistance with the wreck divers.

 

[diver 85]

I don't remember them mentioning "elbows"... their point is that you remove the fins while on the line, secure them (looping over the arms is one way), and approaching the ladder hands-free.

touche'.....very well worded(I was trying to save a little typing...lol)......point is you will be safer with them(fins) off in some instances contrary to what alot of 'perfect divers' say & think.....