Question about pony bottles

[Basking Ridge Diver]

I just looked up some trip reports from NJ dive operators, and I will say that I would definitely be more comfortable diving with a pony there based on the visibility.I’m just surprised that boats require them for all divers at 80’ since it has to hurt the bottom line by “requiring” more gear than many people may own.I recently purchased a 19 CF bottle for a bailout, and have dove with 40 CF bottles in the past, so I am not anti-pony by any means.

What hurts more - adding extra gear or having a "death or two" tagged to your boat?

 

[waterpirate]

The mid atlantic operators do not put profit ahead of reputation or the need to return everyone back to the dock. I have and have seen divers scuttled on the dock, and given refunds. A safe return is the goal. The best way to keep the Govt. and the CG out of your business, is to give them no reason to do so. The dieing season on the Doria, brought us dangerously close to govt. regulation. Since then we have learned more about mixed gas, tables, and how to self regulate.
Eric

 

[ozarkdiver]

My son (14 years old) and I are relatively new to diving, 3 years and about 40 dives, over half are salt water boat. Our max depth is about 80 ft, diving with steel 100 singles. Both of us are AOW with nitrox certification.

My question is about pony bottles. I just bought 19 cf bottles for each of us. I am going to rig with primary off the tank, and octo off the pony. I've review our previous dive sac rates, and 19 cf should be more than adequate for the diving we do.

It seems to me only logical that carrying your own back up air would be far superior to depending entirely upon a buddy in an OOA/equipment failure situation.

And my question... Since it SEEMS a no brainer that a pony is superior to a single tank with octo, am I missing something???

Carrying a pony IS ALWAYS better than depending on a buddy. You can never be sure if your buddy knows what to do, or if he'll even be there when you need him (you'll never have that issue with a pony bottle). The type of diving you mention wouldn't typically require a pony (and yes, it's more gear), but it's nice to know you have a completely redundant backup. I do a lot of solo diving, and have my primary and alternate regs coming off the main tank, plus the octo coming from the pony. Just make sure you have a PSI gauge for the pony, and only use the pony to surface with (don't use it to extend dives).

 

[DennisDiver1]

Good for both you! I have been diving in the pacific north west 23years plus, 20 of those years with the same pony bottle. Just make sure you have a pressure gauge, depth gauge on a hose for easy reach. Do not let the dive shop talk you into a small pressure gauge at the valve. These must be separate from your primary gauges. Please use that pony bottle at 80' and see if you can make it to the safety stop 20' and have plenty of air left. Do this often so you are relax using both systems. Then evey 20 or so dives use the pony for practice at different dephts when returing to surface. redunce is key.
Best Regards

 

[DaleC]

What's wrong with a button gauge on a pony? I use one....
Never mind. I see he is backmounting his pony.

 

[fishwatcher]

It sounds like you have a good setup for your needs. For redundancy on my main tank, I do like having a second regulator attached it. I use an integrated air inflator for this purpose. Using this setup, it's easy to add or subtract the pony without changing the configuration of my existing rig. I back mount my pony to keep it stable and out of the way, and I start my dive with the valve open. It has a standard yellow octo hose, coming around my right side, with the reg attached in a standard location so it's easy to find by an OOA buddy or stranger. I don't plan on handing off the pony, as it's purpose is for self or buddy rescue, but it has a quick release pin so that I could hand it off. In that case, I'd still have two regs attached to my main tank.

I have a valve mounted pressure guage on the pony as well as a wireless transmitter. If I didn't have the wireless transmitter, I might get a hose mounted pressure guage and route it attached along the octo hose for peace of mind.

 

[Rich Keller]

Here is a new way to carry your bail out bottle.

"Bail Out Bottle" pouch hoodie | DESCO Diving Equipment and Supply Company Milwaukee, Wisconsin

 

[Mike Walsh]

WHEN I DIVE IN THE OPEN WATER I ALWAYS BRING A REDUNDANT AIR {PONY TANK} ..................

 

[markmud]

Single engine, low altitude, unpressurized Toyota Tacoma.

I work for an airline as an Aircraft Inspector, and keenly aware of traveling and such. Aware that the pony may at times not be viable due to travel. But back to my original question, or a rephrasing of the original...

WHEN POSSIBLE, is a pony not a no brainer over a octo and single air source? Am I missing something???

Hey Txredneck,

I have a 6cf pony and a 13 cf pony. They fly 737, MD80, A319 A320, A340, 757, 767, and 777, and many smaller planes. My 6 cf pony has been to many parts of the world including the South Pacific. As for needing a new VIS every time the valve is taken off, I am not sure that that is actually a rule. No dive shop has cared other than to pop the cork and look inside for obvious corruption. My ponies have been filled in many tropical dive locations without any questions.

As far as using your pony as your octo rig, I would not do it. Your pony is YOURS! Don't let other divers have it. Tell your buddy during your buddy briefing on the boat that the OCTO IS YOURS, THE PONY IS MINE!

Divers are universally trained to go for your octopus. A diver who runs out of gas, is not a good diver--they will need your bigger tank for the ascent. I am told that ascending while breathing off a single first stage can be difficult with a scared, newbie diver who is sucking your gas like a GE-90 sucks air.

I use my 6 cf pony while I am diving with a buddy or divemaster lead group. I use my 13 cf below 50' while solo diving. The deepest I have been while solo diving is 105'. I went to 105' to do a practice pony bottle ascent.

markm

PS: I am not an air hog; my sac rate is .5 and I am usually the first in the water and last out of the water, and I have more gas remaining than most onboard the boat! For those who want to live after experiencing the ocean, make redundancy your strategy!

---------- Post added June 5th, 2014 at 04:23 PM ----------

What's wrong with a button gauge on a pony? I use one....
Never mind. I see he is backmounting his pony.

Hey DaleC,

What is wrong with a button gauge on your back mounted pony? I use a button gauge. My pony is mounted upside down so I can access the valve with my right hand. I keep the valve off to avoid a free-flow from draining my pony. If I need to use my pony because of a catastrophic failure of my primary system, it does not matter what pressure I have in the pony, I am going straight to the surface (with a controlled and timed ascent) and I may omit the safety stop.

Hopefully, my right arm won't get bitten off by great whitey, or tangled in a net, or chopped off by Odd-Job, or whatever....

markm
PS: I am not a cave diver, I am not a wreck penetrator, and I don't do deco!

 

[DaleC]

That is not what being self reliant, or a buddy is about at all. We are self reliant so we can help ourselves. By being able to help ourselves, we are in a better position to help others.

I would not dive with anyone who told me any tank was theirs, not mine. To me, that is a red flag. It's just a tank of air. Anyone needing air can use anything I have and we'll figure the details out after the stress of the event has passed.

If my recreational buddy was LOA or OOA, we would be heading up anyway.
If I'm buddying with someone who doesn't have redundancy in an overhead environment, I've made the big mistake before we splashed.

I also would not dive a blind tank, unless I were diving vintage, in which case I would have other strategies in place.