Question about pony bottles

[dumpsterDiver]

I'm a regular NY/NJ diver - and every single dive boat in the region requires every diver to have redundant air (either doubles, or a pony/sling bottle). In addition, if you have a primary tank, you MUST have a primary and backup second stage. It is somewhat cavalier to say you only need a primary 2nd stage on a single tank just because you have a 19cuft pony. That's not a lot of air.

Always prepare for the worst and have a contingency plan. Think what if, a, b, c...z. If your primary starts free flowing at 80 feet, you have only that 19cuft pony (no backup on primary first stage) - what if something happens, however unlikely. say a buddies gas supply is lost?

Make sure you know how to use the tanks, how to properly switch regulators, stow excess hoses and share from a single reg if needed. It's all about preparedness and redundancy.





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the whole point of a pony is to be large enough to get you to the surface. If your primary tank free flows and is non functional, you simply switch to the pony and go up.

If your primary tank becomes unfunctional AND your buddy also has the exact same failure, then he switches to his pony and goes up.

If your main tank fails, your buddy's main tank fails and then his pony fails too (all at the same time) well then you two will have to share a single pony bottle on the way up. Do you really plan for these types of multiple, simultaneous failures?

And if all this happens at just 80 feet... big deal.. you share a single second stage for 90 seconds and you are both very close to the surface.. Rough tough Jersey divers shuld be able to make it from 25 feet to the surface with an exhale.. yes?

 

[kwinter]

Most NY/NJ boats I know require an alternate supply if the dive is deeper than 80 feet. And none of them -- not a single one -- requires an octo on the primary if there is a secondary tank.


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[scagrotto]

the whole point of a pony is to be large enough to get you to the surface. If your primary tank free flows and is non functional, you simply switch to the pony and go up. ...
you are both very close to the surface.. Rough tough Jersey divers shuld be able to make it from 25 feet to the surface with an exhale.. yes?

Rough, tough, New Jersey diver or not, any diver who isn't a moron should recognize that there are times when simply going up isn't the best option unless their planning has resulted in that being their only option.

That means sensible divers will prefer a plan that doesn't require an immediate ascent in case of any realistic problem. I'd think that a diver who has planned for the possibility that they won't be able to rely on air from a buddy would want an option to choose the optimal path to the surface. For your diving a direct ascent from where the problem occurs may be a viable option. For others the best option may be to get to the other end of a 250' wreck, use the line to ascend, and have enough air for a safety stop.

 

[mopardiver]

Keep in mind that this is just the advanced section of the forum, 250’ deep into a Big A$$ wreck without a reliable buddy, a stage bottle, and at least independent doubles is way off topic here in my opinion.

I’m just guessing here, but the NJ pony rule for any dive over 80 feet probably has to do more with the fact that ridiculous lawsuits (mostly above water) often occur and our successful in that region of the country. I’m sure that you have some gnarly deep wrecks that Snooki wouldn't want to dive…but "any dive over 80 feet" must have a mandatory pony even with a buddy????

 

[waterpirate]

While the depth for the pony rule may seem arbitrary, it forces divers to THINK about the training they have or have not recieved. It forces them to understand that visibility, buddy seperation, and death are all possible. That flys in the face of the warm fuzzy training they recieved in the quarry.
Eric

 

[Kharon]

Keep in mind that this is just the advanced section of the forum, 250’ deep into a Big A$$ wreck without a reliable buddy, a stage bottle, and at least independent doubles is way off topic here in my opinion.

Try reading rather than jumping straight to refuting what wasn't said- the wreck was 250 feet long - not 250 feet deep and not a word about penetration into the wreck.

 

[doctormike]

Keep in mind that this is just the advanced section of the forum, 250’ deep into a Big A$$ wreck without a reliable buddy, a stage bottle, and at least independent doubles is way off topic here in my opinion.

Kharon beat me to it, but just to reinforce the point, in northeast US ocean diving, being 250' from the anchor line on a wreck and getting separated from your buddy is not a far-fetched scenario, even with a "reliable" buddy. Stage bottles are for extending a dive, not for emergencies. Independent doubles (or manifolded doubles, to a different degree) are reasonable alternate gas supply sources, as is a pony bottle with an adequate volume. Why wouldn't this be an appropriate topic for the advanced forum?

I’m just guessing here, but the NJ pony rule for any dive over 80 feet probably has to do more with the fact that ridiculous lawsuits (mostly above water) often occur and our successful in that region of the country.

Yup, guessing. Unless maybe you know something specific about litigation in our region of the country...

I’m sure that you have some gnarly deep wrecks that Snooki wouldn't want to dive…but "any dive over 80 feet" must have a mandatory pony even with a buddy????

Actually, I'm not so sure about that. It has been a while since I did local dives with a single tank, but I have a number of friends who dive single tank and I don't remember a recent discussion about a pony requirement on these wrecks on the dive boats that we use. Certainly the late, great Jeanne II would frequently take new divers out to our local wrecks, renting them Aluminum 80s as needed, etc...

 

[mopardiver]

You're a MD in NYC... I guess you would know if the Big Apple is full of greedy trial lawyers happy to sue for anything! Sorry if I offended anybody!!!

 

[doctormike]

You're a MD in NYC... I guess you would know if big apple is full of greedy trial lawyers happy to sue for anything! Sorry if I offended anybody!!!

Hah! No worries... but we DO have a big problem with lawyers from Tennessee who come here to dive and then try to get a few cases in during trip!

 

[mopardiver]

I just looked up some trip reports from NJ dive operators, and I will say that I would definitely be more comfortable diving with a pony there based on the visibility. I’m just surprised that boats require them for all divers at 80’ since it has to hurt the bottom line by “requiring” more gear than many people may own. I recently purchased a 19 CF bottle for a bailout, and have dove with 40 CF bottles in the past, so I am not anti-pony by any means.